Overtraining? Undertraining? Spot on?

[Badnews]

I have seriously cut back on my conditioning training as I felt I was unable to maintain the quantity I was doing alongside a full time job, and stay healthy. I've found though that by training smarter and more intensly my fitness has dipped very little. The difference is minimal, but on the flip side I feel better for it and dont have as many niggly injuries. On average this is what my week consists of (when NOT preparing for a fight - obviously it increases then).

Sun - rest
Mon - MMA groundfighting (2hrs)
Tues - MMA standup (2hrs)
Wed - High intensity interval training
Thurs - MMA Wrestling (2hrs)
Fri - Low level aerobic training (machines) and stretch, more like a recovery session.
Sat - Evil, dirty nasty cardio/bodyweight stuff in 3 - 5 min bricks. MMA specific movements/exercises.

Out of interest how does this compare to everyone elses average week? I sometimes miss Wed or Fri's out if feeling tired. I have reduced the amount I do by about a third to a half. I'm 33 so recovery is more and more important in the last few years!!!

Anyone else do more/less/the same? If so why? What benefit do you feel there is in doing more/less? Not after definitive answers just idle curiosity. :D

[dhill]

Im often tend to over train when its coming up to fights, as i get nervous so push myself hard and then get to the stage where i start to decline in strength and power, it sucks!
But between fights ill train 1-2 times a day, 6days a week, mixing between technique and fitness.
How close do a fight do you/people pick up training for a fight?the norm seems to be 5-6weeks?

[Badnews]

Im often tend to over train when its coming up to fights, as i get nervous so push myself hard and then get to the stage where i start to decline in strength and power, it sucks!
But between fights ill train 1-2 times a day, 6days a week, mixing between technique and fitness.
How close do a fight do you/people pick up training for a fight?the norm seems to be 5-6weeks?

I build up gradually from 8 weeks out, increasing intensity/frequency slowly. I also change the focus gradually depending on what I feel I need to work on (strength/speed/cardio etc). really felt like minimsing myself to the bare minimum in terms of the number of sessions I did helped. It made me work so much harder when I did train as I felt I needed to make up for lost time. Psychologically it was very hard to reign myself in... but my body thanked me for it and like I said, I dont feel my conditioning was much different, but my training was obviously more efficient.

How many fitness sessions do you do on an average week? When not preparing for a fight.
Also in the technique sessions how hard do you work (as a % of effort say).

[dhill]

when not training for a fight the I probably to 4 technique sessions a week, 2 fairly hard, but not as hard as training for a fight, then 2 fairly tame.
then ill run/do circuits 2 times a week and then weight for strength and power 3-4 times a week...
tend to do something 1-2 times a day, but thats cus im a student so have alot of free time...altho finished last week so imagin ill have to go to 1 session most days soon!
I agree tho that often training a bit less is better, as training can be alot more intense and you push yourself.

[Duchman]

try to be self employed.. much better

[Smiler]

Hi!

I have no fight until September, but I have so far this week had 14 sessions and there's the last one to go tomorrow morning. One of those workouts each day would be an intense one, the other 1 or 2 easier on the body.

This week I have sparredx3, technical kickboxingx2, judox1, grapplingx1 (normally 3 and replacing 2 of the conditioning workouts), boxing padworkx2, and conditioning x5. Tomorrow is a fun session where we do a bit of everything!

I can't do this without the correct nutrition, otherwise I would totally overtrain.

Also, the workouts are all different, to stress my body in a completely different way each time, to not cause overtraining through repetitive nature.

Its all about training smart, eating smart, recovering smart.

And if anything, its the last one now that I need to adjust a little...getting to bed too late...probably going to introduce a recovery massage each week too...


Smiler

[Smiler]

Oh, and when I was 'employed' last nearly 6 years ago, I would train around 10xper week still...before work, after work, and utilising weekends...

Now I train however is necessary during the week, but the fiancee rules the weekends! I normally still get a couple in though...

Smiler

[Badnews]

Its all about training smart, eating smart, recovering smart.

Couldnt agree more! Its just irritating when with my job there never seems to be enough hours in the day to do everything I want to! Damn that full time job! And mortgage! Sod it I'll quit and go back to my Mum and Dad... the wife can fend for herself! :D

[dhill]

at the moment i only work 12-5, so thats prety ideal for training mornings and evenings!
and i agree with you both, eating right makes such a huge difference, if i train hard and eat badly / average then i often recover alot slower and feel alot heavier in training, then by just eating well i imrpove alot!
Would be ace if one day actually had the opportunity to be a full time fighter, fit in alot more!

[Rosi]

I think a lot depends on the intensity you are training at. You get fighters talking about how they train seventeen times a day (or whatever), but it doesn't really mean anything unless you know what they're doing in that time.

[Badnews]

I think a lot depends on the intensity you are training at. You get fighters talking about how they train seventeen times a day (or whatever), but it doesn't really mean anything unless you know what they're doing in that time.

Quality not quantity!

In preparation for the last 6 nations the Welsh rugby team apparently reduced the length of their training sessions hugely. Instead the coach insisted on very high intensity, quality 40 min sessions. Anyone who didnt graft was out. The results speak for themselves I suppose - Grand Slam! (Mind you didnt help them against South Africa today... unless SA have instituted the 30 min training session? :confused: )

[Smiler]

Hi,

Yeah, Rosi is 100% right!

My training increases in intensity towards a fight, I do less sessions, and the sessions get shorter.

One reason why I can train so many times is that the duration of the sessions is not long - sometimes as short as 30minutes or even less, depending on the aim. Each session has one specific aim, giving the mind and body a chance to focus for maximum effect.

Off season, I try to get a minimum of 3 balls out sessions a week in.

In fight prep every day one of the sessions will be balls out, and additional rest days can get added in.

Smiler

[Badnews]

Hi,

Yeah, Rosi is 100% right!

My training increases in intensity towards a fight, I do less sessions, and the sessions get shorter.

One reason why I can train so many times is that the duration of the sessions is not long - sometimes as short as 30minutes or even less, depending on the aim. Each session has one specific aim, giving the mind and body a chance to focus for maximum effect.

Off season, I try to get a minimum of 3 balls out sessions a week in.

In fight prep every day one of the sessions will be balls out, and additional rest days can get added in.

Smiler

have you been training with the south african rugby team!?!?!?!?!?

[Smiler]

Nope, lol!

Whats the relevence, not up on their training? Might be something to learn from...

With the right intentions,

Smiler

[OllieR]

guys this is a great discussion... coming from an s and c background in rugby, this is topic is the bain of my life. I constantly argue with the coaching staff about the inverse relationship between intensity and volume and that sacrificing quality for quantity will only lead to negative results.... injury, exhaustion, poor execution of skills and eventually overtraining.

It stands to reason that if you train at high intensities, you can only sustain that level for short periods of time. If players / athletes / fighters are asked to sustain high levels for long periods of time then you get several results.

a. they mess up their practise and both athlete and coach get frustrated and often attempt to train harder tomake up for it.
b. they get injured
c. they get away with it but then later in the training cycle they can not complete sessions.

There are however ways to train like this but they have to be followed by a strict period of off loading. The general practise is 'adapted supercompensation' where by trainers push their athletes right to the verge of overtraining (they should be showing signs of illness and depression !!) and then completely back off for upto a week. On their return to training the athletes feel fitter, stronger, faster etc.

Having relatively recently started training mma fighters, the same problem exists here too. I can fully appreciate why the problem occurs because of the number of disaplines however if a quality over quantity approach is taken it will always leave just enough in the tank to get the best from training.
I am not sure of the reasoning of 2hr session in any of the disaplines especially when you bear in mind fights are likely to be 15 to 25 minutes.
if the 2hr session is for technique, is a that length of time ideal for refining skills ? if it is for conditioning, is that specific to the event ? Are the coaches thinking about these things when they are coaching. I know most don't in rugby. Apart from the top coaches...... Three teams who's coaches strictly employ intense quality sessions are wasps, wales and leicester (2007 season) and their results speak for themselves

I am still new to mma so i don't really have the answers but i hope this gives an insight from another professional sport. sorry it turn out to be an essay !!!!

[Smiler]

Hi Ollie, you speak sense in my opinion.

Training needs to be sports specific. Slow technical training is good to learn and develop, but needs to be thought of in the context of the real application of the moves.

For example, at Judo, we train where we learn the new technique, practice it in a relaxed manner, speed it up until its at working speed, work the breaks to the technique, add the tension, then practice it in a competitive environment. I feel that that is the main difference between a technical martial artist and a martial sportsman. One's an academic and one does the practical!

I also agree about the specifics of conditioning, that endurance explosive power stamina etc should be specific to the length of the event.

In respect to taking people to overtraining, have a look at periodisation in google for background. I periodise my training in about 4weekly cycles at the moment, building for three weeks then one week's easy to allow my body to recover...

Smiler

[Badnews]

Nope, lol!

Whats the relevence, not up on their training? Might be something to learn from...

With the right intentions,

Smiler

sorry for any confusion - I was being cynical. my previous post referenced the short 40 min sessions the welsh rugby team started for this year's 6 nations!

thanks for some very interesting comments, its all very useful. respect to you smiler for putting that effort into learning about nutrition/weight loss.... knowledge is power! :D