Rubber Guard.

[widge milward]

Nice thread on the UG about RG

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=1&thread=1299951&page=1

What are peoples thoughts / opinions / experiences of it?

any articles / video's / books / links would be cool.

[Teddy Bravo]

Rubber Guard Kicks Ass!!!!!

Doenst work very well with the Gi, but no gi used in the right way it can be very effective. I love catching people in crack head control then working for the invisible collar.

I have loads of stuff on rubber guard i can send you if you pm me your email address.

[widge milward]

post links here if you can.

What sort of stuff is it?

links to youtube vids / articles/ PDF books anything we can possibly keep in one thread would be great.

would be good to hear opinions from the experienced grapplers on here

[Rob T]

I like it, I've only just started using it recently though... and I hurt my knee doing it yesterday in a sparring session!! The system definitely works though, I've caught a lot of subs from it and it works both gi and nogi. The only problem with gi is that it's far easier for your opponent to control your far-side leg.

I had used a similar control for no gi before seeing rubber guard. I thought I had a video of me using it in comp on Youtube but it seems like I don't anymore. Same thing as Dean Lister used against Alessio Sakara (I think).

[Jimmy Boogaloo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES7NyvpMhM4&eurl=

love this vid - 8 minutes

[wagon]

I still hurt from eddie bravos seminar on Rubber guard and twister

[Allan Shrek]

There's some useful stuff in it but it's far from the be all and end all of no-gi grappling. I play it alot but am currently have major problems dealing with getting stacked. It's a useful tool to add to your arsenal though, especially as many people aren't exposed to it so you can get some surprises.

[Rob T]

I play it alot but am currently have major problems dealing with getting stacked.

Make sure you keep your other foot on their hip and maintain pressure with it. Then constantly pull down with the leg you are grabbing. That should stop them stacking (obviously nothing is 100% though!).

[tom blackledge]

Make sure you keep your other foot on their hip and maintain pressure with it. Then constantly pull down with the leg you are grabbing. That should stop them stacking (obviously nothing is 100% though!).

that wouldnt stop your opponent stacking, you have to transition it to a sweep with both feet on hips to prevent the stack or to make them lay back in your guard.
Stacking comes from the hips and legs not the neck.

[Allan Shrek]

True.

My problem comes when they do a half sit out/hipdrop to break the foot on hip connection and then stack me. Is it becasue I'm getting lazy on the trapped side that they can get that sit out and break my foot on hip pressure?

[Stalkachu]

I think it's actually more about the positioning of your knee. If your knee is out, all the pressure on the foot in the world won't stop him breaking it. If your knee is tight to their side, it should make it a little easier. At least that's how I remember Eddie teaching it when I was out there last year.

...hope that helps?

Take care,

Stalks

[tom blackledge]

It sounds like you need to be squeezing your knees together more but if you manage to get to the jiu claw it doesnt matter if they start to pass the other leg you can still pull your leg from in between theres unless they pin it with their shin.

[Jamie Taylor]

I have been using it a fair bit recently. I can't really get my feet into position for invisible collar and sometimes struggle to transition smmothly into the jiu-claw but when I get there I love the position. I usually just wait and use the DA to get side control or sometimes try for the twister and fail. I always forget to actually try for the omoplata cos I'm always thinking about letting them roll ! lol

As far as getting the twister I really struggle to secure the arm once I have rolled over my shoulder, most of the time I just go for the foot if theyre defending well or use it to transition to the back.

It's awesome when it all starts coming together but it took a looong time for me. Still shit but getting there.

[Ben]

I've used it on and off for a couple of years. Like some have said above, it has its place but it isn't the magic answer for no gi grappling (personally it is better for grappling than mma) and I think there a couple of simple counters to it.

All I would say re: Eddie Bravo's posts is that remember he is selling a system.

Unless he really believes what comes out of his mouth, in which case oh dear

[bigleeroy1]

There's some useful stuff in it but it's far from the be all and end all of no-gi grappling. I play it alot but am currently have major problems dealing with getting stacked. It's a useful tool to add to your arsenal though, especially as many people aren't exposed to it so you can get some surprises.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12F5eAkrS4s

[wagon]

Josh Barnetts seminar / instructional "Snapping the rubber guard" is really good.

I like Eddies stuff but my current lack of flexibility restricts what I can and can't do. Horses for courses and all that shit

[Waterboy]

I've used it on and off for a couple of years. Like some have said above, it has its place but it isn't the magic answer for no gi grappling (personally it is better for grappling than mma) and I think there a couple of simple counters to it.

All I would say re: Eddie Bravo's posts is that remember he is selling a system.

Unless he really believes what comes out of his mouth, in which case oh dear

If anyone's seen his seminar with Dean Lister, he goes to great lengths to explain that he definitley isn't purporting a 'magic answer' and that there is of course no such thing. He simply reckons that for nogi and MMA, his guard system has a higher percentage of working than standard guard. I'd be inclined to degree.

Regarding 'the stack' as a defense to rubber guard, I'd say it is the best defence/hardest to deal with initially. In a pure grappling match, my movement off my back if someone stacks my rubberguard would be either a) swing a leg through and grab a heel hook or De La Riva guard b)if he's super high stacking, swing right under to X-guard c) go to butterfly and any number of options.

For MMA, it's different, but remember WHY you're doing rubber guard in an MMA fight. Unless you're Nog (or Paul Sass), you prob don't want a guy in your guard hitting you. Someone stacking your rubber guard in MMA gives you a great opportunity to either push them off and stand up, or better still swing your legs under yourself to come to your knees and take THEM down. If nothing else it's a great way to stall to a standup for a strong striker (dep on ref obviously).

If you think there a couple of simple counters to the entire rubber guard system, then you've either you or the guy you're grappling with is only has a basic understanding of the system. There are counters to every move of course, but there are always counters to those counters as well ;)

Which counters do you find get used against you, or do you find easy to use on an opponent?

Excuse me if my tone seems aggressive or condescending btw Ben, just took some NoXplode and realised the gym had shut!!! Pretty wired! haha

Widge, I might be able to host some 'stuff' for you when I get a chance.

[Waterboy]

I like Eddies stuff but my current lack of flexibility restricts what I can and can't do. Horses for courses and all that shit

And of course, there's a reason why the first chapter in his book is pure stretching. And indeed, why even consider rubber guard if your open or closed guard is shit hot...

[Teddy Bravo]

This is a good vid of eddie bravo rolling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqhFDyCxZL0


enjoy

[markjitsu]

rubber guard is basically high guard + grabbing your legs or feet to obtain more control, so of course high guard is better for subs than standard closed guard position.
i find some of eddie bravo's stuff awesome but no one persons grappling style can suit everyone else so i find alot of it pretty useless aswell.
i also hate all the stupid names he gives to techniques as i think it just makes them harder to remember (by name)

[Rob T]

that wouldnt stop your opponent stacking, you have to transition it to a sweep with both feet on hips to prevent the stack or to make them lay back in your guard.
Stacking comes from the hips and legs not the neck.

That's why the foot on the hip is important. That combined with pulling down with the leg stretches them out and makes it very difficult for them to stack you.

I find I can stop people stacking me by doing what I described.

What that I wrote made you think I was saying stacking involved the neck?? I know how stacking works just fine!

[widge milward]

good stuff guys, great to hear other peoples views on it.

I think it is a useful position to know in MMA, obviously you ALWAYS!!! want top position. its great to know what people think, peoples problems, advantages they find etc...

Waterbot, it would be grest if you could get some stuff up.

[tom blackledge]

That's why the foot on the hip is important. That combined with pulling down with the leg stretches them out and makes it very difficult for them to stack you.

I find I can stop people stacking me by doing what I described.

What that I wrote made you think I was saying stacking involved the neck?? I know how stacking works just fine!

because you said pull down the leg you are holding and that should stop them stacking?

[Rob T]

because you said pull down the leg you are holding and that should stop them stacking?

Combined with the foot on the hip!! I clearly said this and mentioned the foot on hip first as it's the most important part.

The foot on the hip stops them bringing their hips in closer to you. Using the pressure of your leg across their shoulders (more than neck) and the arm driving into the other shoulder helps you maintain your own posture. I.e. if they do manage to start to stack a bit I can use the posture I have to move my shoulders backwards rather than let them crunch me. Stronger/tighter control = better every time.

[Leigh]

Once you get the arm isolated, stacking will not help you. And stacking will not, in itself, prevent you isolating the arm

[tom blackledge]

Combined with the foot on the hip!! I clearly said this and mentioned the foot on hip first as it's the most important part.

The foot on the hip stops them bringing their hips in closer to you. Using the pressure of your leg across their shoulders (more than neck) and the arm driving into the other shoulder helps you maintain your own posture. I.e. if they do manage to start to stack a bit I can use the posture I have to move my shoulders backwards rather than let them crunch me. Stronger/tighter control = better every time.

so you mean by squezzing your knees together.

[Rob T]

Squeezing your knees together is a basic of the rubber guard. I don't think that in itself does much to prevent being stacked but the pressure you maintain through doing that makes it harder for them to clear your foot off the hip. It also makes any movement you want to do easier.

That isn't what I meant though. Imagine someone is trying to stack you while you have the mission control position (and foot on the hip, knees tight etc)... if you are pulling your leg down strong and have your arm driving into their shoulder, you can move backwards as they try to drive their hips forward. It also gives you a stronger posture from which to maintain pressure on their hip with your foot...


argh, to be honest it's just really difficult to explain in words. We are probably talking about the same thing, I know you're a good grappler so you're not going to be thinking about something totally stupid after all!

[fishface]

You obviously don't know Tom that well then matey:D ;)

Widge - try these!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylECHo_yr_g


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEICFyihgRg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES7NyvpMhM4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eItCpULdLoE&feature=related

F

[wagon]

on a slight tangent from rubber guard. Anyone know of any good dvd's / books etc of flexibility, streatching and routines specific for BJJ and grappling?

if not just some good ones tthat can be used. I am about as flexible as a very unflexible thing!!

[tom blackledge]

yeah mate its very hard to explain rubber guard in words but all i was getting at is its very difficult to prevent your opponent stacking.

[Jamie Taylor]

Pavel tsatsouline or whatever he's called has some good stuff on stretching.

[Rob T]

yeah mate its very hard to explain rubber guard in words but all i was getting at is its very difficult to prevent your opponent stacking.

Definitely, what I suggest may well not work and then you do need to switch to something else!

I tried putting rubber guard to use at ADCC yesterday but need to get a lot tighter with it... transition to jiu-claw (say what you will about the names, they make it easy to remember and talk about) needs a lot of drilling.