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JoeDurrant
31-07-2008, 02:27 PM
I have been looking at MMA/BJJ clubs in and around Watford, and I could find a few, but travelling to them is a problem as I have very little money. So I have decided to rain myself the basics. I have started running, and I go down the gym once a week, I also do prees ups, sit ups, and all of that sort of stuff. I am going to start swimming aswell. The only place I have access to a punch bag is the gym, but I can work with pads with my mates, and when my brother is down, him. What advice can anyone give me to improve my fighting techniques, weight loss and anything else related in the sport. Oh about the weight loss thing, I am 111kg and my preffered weight would be around 70-90kg.
Any help would be great. :)

TheFreak
31-07-2008, 03:58 PM
If you cant get to a gym i would suggest finding some decent instructionals online, but the basics are the most important part if your learn them wrong its just gonna be a big waste of time.

its all up to what you want to achieve from this if you wanna fight your gonna need a gym eventually, if its fitness your after then theres nothing wrong with doing it on your own or with some mates.

JoeDurrant
31-07-2008, 06:54 PM
If you cant get to a gym i would suggest finding some decent instructionals online, but the basics are the most important part if your learn them wrong its just gonna be a big waste of time.

its all up to what you want to achieve from this if you wanna fight your gonna need a gym eventually, if its fitness your after then theres nothing wrong with doing it on your own or with some mates.
I want both fitness and eventually fight, I will be able to go to gym after my college course in a couple of years, and when I have some money coming in from a job. So untill I can find a job I am a bit screwed.

mattypants89
31-07-2008, 08:44 PM
see I have a problem like yours in which i find getting to training or getting to the gym sometimes hard ( My main style is wdo ryu karate but im looking at getting in to mma as well ) and i dont sparr anywhere near what i feel is nessary so my brother kindly offerd to let me train on/with him, so i got him a pair of gloves and a pair of them TKD kick paddels things i think there called foucs paddels or somthing ... anyway we sparr and train doing throws and kicks punches etc but however i can only do those becuase i do a formal traing session on mondays and then all day on a sataday is spent at the gym then karate then hsingi and pakua then i go for a run.

where money is concernd isent a issue for me a work full time as a builder , but my karate lessons are 6 pounds a go and my hsingi and pakua lesson is 3 pounds a go .


well i recomend starting a style even if it isent a mma or a freestyle martial arts class even if its once a week or once every two weeks becuase that will give you more knowlage and more first hand experience than a online book or what have you.

Having said that i also use online information, looking at videos on youtube is quite helpfull

But doing the classes for real will then give you the stuff you need to know to be able to train at home as like the freak said "the basics are the most important part if your learn them wrong its just gonna be a big waste of time."


sorry about it being so long i hope its helped alittle a bit mroe info about your self would be cool.


mat

TheFreak
31-07-2008, 09:52 PM
maybe try and do one class a week and then other days just practise what you learned in the class on your mates.

Emmet J
31-07-2008, 10:23 PM
I'm about to sound pretty negative here, but bear with me.

For a start, Freak is correct. Leraning the basics properly is the key to being good at MMA, which is why people who learn the basics off books/youtube/mates/etc tend to be shit when they start MMA properly (if they ever do). This is also a problem for people who decide to go and do 'another style' until they can get to MMA (look, it's either MMA or it's not), because you inevitably fall back to your basics, and if that's 'hands-down-by-your-waist' karate stance, or 'roll-your punches' kung-fu striking then that's what you'll do. Obvious exceptions (for some) may be boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, etc, but even these can be detrimental.

So here's the thing. In a lot of respects (and some people will disagree with me here). You're probably better off not trying to do any MMA stuff until you can get somewhere that will show you the basics properly, even if it's once a week to start out. That way, if you have to train on your own you'll at least know you're doing it right and not fucking yourself up for down the line.

In the meantime, work on your cardio, strength training and all-round fitness (especially if you're looking to loose between 20 and 40 kg as you suggested), because that's a big part of training that a lot of new people underestimate.

bigreddog
31-07-2008, 11:04 PM
For fitness - you're fine - good work and good luck with it.

But fighting is a skill sport, and MMA is defined by it's aliveness - work with a resisting partner.

My suggestion - get yourself to a judo club. It's about as cheap as you can get, and ubiquitous, and a great base - you'll hard conditioning in the randori, get stand up clinch work, and some ground work. You may even find some training partners who want to train mma. It's not perfect but it really isn't a bad place to start, imho

JoeDurrant
01-08-2008, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the advice and I have found a judo club like 5 minutes away from me, so will join that, and I will carry on doing my cardio.

Leigh
01-08-2008, 12:10 PM
Do load of drilling and sparring with your mates and try to get privates off someone good on a regular basis to make sure you are going in the right direction

One of the funniest things I ever saw was a boxing match in Vancouver. One guy was listed as "He trains in his basement!" He got stopped in about a minute

On the same show, a BJJ blue belt had an MMA match against a Native American who was really aggressive. The BJJ guy ran in with head down and got beaten like a dog - punched to the floor and stamped on

The moral is - natural ability will get you so far but proper training is required to fulfill your potential

Reedy
01-08-2008, 03:21 PM
I remember hearing that Evan Tanner taught himself with videos how to grapple.

Leesin
01-08-2008, 04:53 PM
Tough to learn techniques the right ways off of videos etc, i am sure one in 10,000 people might be able to but your best bet is like what everyone else said, go to the judo class or something and you can stick at your lifting and cardio :). You just dont want to teach yourself bad technique, because youll imprint it on your brain and youll end up keep using bad technique. Good look with reaching an MMA gym !

Matt The Giant
05-08-2008, 09:04 AM
I would say it is useless learning anything from instructionals off of the internet, they aren't always very accurate, and a lot of the time you may think you're doing something correct, and you're not... Like has already been said. If you don't get the basics down right, you'll be wasting your time. You need to either get yourself down a gym or get yourself a private lesson with an instructor who will teach you at any location you choose.
Seriously, don't take the same route as most wannabe fighters who hit a puncbag and work out at a gym, therefore proclaiming that it makes them fighters. Actually learn how to fight properly.

Allan Shrek
05-08-2008, 09:19 AM
I'm about to sound pretty negative here, but bear with me.

For a start, Freak is correct. Leraning the basics properly is the key to being good at MMA, which is why people who learn the basics off books/youtube/mates/etc tend to be shit when they start MMA properly (if they ever do). This is also a problem for people who decide to go and do 'another style' until they can get to MMA (look, it's either MMA or it's not), because you inevitably fall back to your basics, and if that's 'hands-down-by-your-waist' karate stance, or 'roll-your punches' kung-fu striking then that's what you'll do. Obvious exceptions (for some) may be boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, etc, but even these can be detrimental.

So here's the thing. In a lot of respects (and some people will disagree with me here). You're probably better off not trying to do any MMA stuff until you can get somewhere that will show you the basics properly, even if it's once a week to start out. That way, if you have to train on your own you'll at least know you're doing it right and not fucking yourself up for down the line.



Sorry but I can't follow your argument that learning another art is detrimental to your MMA abilities, especialy when you say things like MT, Boxing and Judo can be detrimental. Surely since the vast majority of top fighters have a single art base that they have developed into an MMA game the evidence flies against what you're saying.

Emmet J
07-08-2008, 10:19 PM
Sorry but I can't follow your argument that learning another art is detrimental to your MMA abilities, especialy when you say things like MT, Boxing and Judo can be detrimental. Surely since the vast majority of top fighters have a single art base that they have developed into an MMA game the evidence flies against what you're saying.

The vast majority of top fighters have a single art base from years ago plus a considerable amount of time dedicated purely to MMA-based training which has rid them of the detrimental effects and problems (in most cases). And note that I did say detrimental and not fatal.

I'm pretty sure that even Randy Couture had to train for a good while before he stopped naturally giving away his back, and you still see plenty of very good boxers get sat on their arse by sloppy takedowns simply because boxing footwork does not suit MMA.

You can teach an old dog new tricks, but it's not easy to do. When you practice something long enough it becomes second nature, and that's great if you're a boxer doing boxing (for example) but if your second nature is such that you only think about your hands and not your legs then that can become detrimental later on if you switch sports to say Thai or MMA.

Training other combat sports for MMA isn't the worst thing in the world, but if you have the choice of doing that or MMA, I'd say wait for MMA, and you're more likely to end up an all-round athlete like the current generation of top fighters who have done just that, such as G.S.P. and BJ Penn.

Just because people have been doing it that way in MMA for years (and getting by as a result of doing it), doesn't mean it's the best way to do it, or even a good idea.

Jamie Taylor
07-08-2008, 10:57 PM
How can people say instructionals are useless ?

What a load of shit, it may not be as effective as having someone there showing you the moves and correcting your technique but it's a damn good alternative if you don't have a coach or if you want to expand your game.

The reason most people cant get anything from watching instructionals is because they do just that....watch them.

Without eager training partners and lots of time to drill the techniques then yeah maybe they're pretty useless but I have learned a lot from them.

Duchman
08-08-2008, 05:00 AM
JamieTaylor = correct.

greets
self trained bum i guess

Jay
08-08-2008, 06:30 AM
The vast majority of top fighters have a single art base from years ago plus a considerable amount of time dedicated purely to MMA-based training which has rid them of the detrimental effects and problems (in most cases). And note that I did say detrimental and not fatal.

I'm pretty sure that even Randy Couture had to train for a good while before he stopped naturally giving away his back, and you still see plenty of very good boxers get sat on their arse by sloppy takedowns simply because boxing footwork does not suit MMA.

You can teach an old dog new tricks, but it's not easy to do. When you practice something long enough it becomes second nature, and that's great if you're a boxer doing boxing (for example) but if your second nature is such that you only think about your hands and not your legs then that can become detrimental later on if you switch sports to say Thai or MMA.

Training other combat sports for MMA isn't the worst thing in the world, but if you have the choice of doing that or MMA, I'd say wait for MMA, and you're more likely to end up an all-round athlete like the current generation of top fighters who have done just that, such as G.S.P. and BJ Penn.

Just because people have been doing it that way in MMA for years (and getting by as a result of doing it), doesn't mean it's the best way to do it, or even a good idea.


you're incinuating that GSP and BJ 'waited' for MMA, or just training MMA when it's one of the most obvious points that BJ was a BJJ guy for years before entering the sport and GSP was a highly experienced karate guy.

you're not gonna become the best stand up fighter or grappler or wrestler just from doing MMA sessions, you'd need to focus on them individually to reap the same kind of benefits, not just waterede down version in a mixed class. putting them all together is just another part of the puzzle.




oh and instructionals are good :)

Relentless
08-08-2008, 01:18 PM
you're incinuating that GSP and BJ 'waited' for MMA, or just training MMA when it's one of the most obvious points that BJ was a BJJ guy for years before entering the sport and GSP was a highly experienced karate guy.

you're not gonna become the best stand up fighter or grappler or wrestler just from doing MMA sessions, you'd need to focus on them individually to reap the same kind of benefits, not just waterede down version in a mixed class. putting them all together is just another part of the puzzle.




oh and instructionals are good :)

Yeah ... what he said

Rob T
08-08-2008, 01:29 PM
GSP also says he still trains everything separately, just doing MMA sparring once a week and then more often coming up to fights.

Duchman
08-08-2008, 03:05 PM
GSP also says he still trains everything separately, just doing MMA sparring once a week and then more often coming up to fights.

And he called that his mistake :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfCjcH30vzk

Rob T
08-08-2008, 03:36 PM
Thank you for updating me (although I am trusting you here because I can't put the sound on Youtube in work so I'll have to watch it later)!

Does he say what his routine is now?

Duchman
08-08-2008, 03:54 PM
that he was training everything seperate before. And now does more mma sparring. Cause his timing was off before it.

dunny
08-08-2008, 06:33 PM
gsp, bj penn, randy couture, they are all the elite. your average guy is not going to benefit the same way as these guys from training a single art, especially a parculiar one. that is all that was trying to be said. yes wrestling will benefit most, boxing or tahi/kickboxing will, bjj will, but if you can get to a quality mma "everything under 1 roof" gym, that would suit your average person a whole lot more. lets face it, someone just getting into martial arts at this age is a hell of a lot less likely to become the next bj penn, so i personally think its sound advice

Emmet J
08-08-2008, 09:32 PM
gsp, bj penn, randy couture, they are all the elite. your average guy is not going to benefit the same way as these guys from training a single art, especially a parculiar one. that is all that was trying to be said. yes wrestling will benefit most, boxing or tahi/kickboxing will, bjj will, but if you can get to a quality mma "everything under 1 roof" gym, that would suit your average person a whole lot more. lets face it, someone just getting into martial arts at this age is a hell of a lot less likely to become the next bj penn, so i personally think its sound advice

I (of course :D ) agree with you.

There is a big difference between the 'top' fighters and the other 99.9% of people who train MMA. At the top level, training arts separately has obvious benefits in improving an all-round game, but only if you have the time and facilities to take what you have learnt back into an MMA gym and work out how to use it in an MMA fight.

If you just train all the arts (or one as was implied originallly) on their own without taking the time to work out what to take from them to use in MMA and what is detrimental and needs to be removed, then you're not doing it right.

This is why at many 'local' MMA events in this country you only have to watch the fight for about 30 seconds and then when someone says: "what do you make of these two?" you go: "well he's blatantly a Muay Thai guy and the other seems to be from a Judo background." Too many people are relying on their 'original style/specialism' or whatever you want to call it because they think that it's what the top guys are doing, when it simply isn't.

r-v
09-08-2008, 12:13 AM
I remember hearing that Evan Tanner taught himself with videos how to grapple.


So did Pat Militich watching Renzo Gracie Instruc's

Emmet J
09-08-2008, 02:16 PM
So did Pat Militich watching Renzo Gracie Instruc's

Instructionals are useful to people who already have a good grounding and knowledge of what they are doing and how the techniques they are seeing demonstrated can add to their game.

While I've never heard that Miletich learnt from instructionals, I do believe the rumours about Tanner are true, if somewhat exagerrated. Tanner was already an accomplished wrestler and had competed in several MMA bouts before he ever started 'learning' from instructionals, and even then he was taking what he saw on the videos and training it at a gym with other people, not just sitting on the floor at home in his shack practising armbars on his shotgun.

JoeDurrant
11-08-2008, 12:41 PM
Well, I have taken all your words of wisdom in, and I have been training Judo from a guy I know who used to compete a lot ( for free :) ) I have also been working on my cardio, a lot more than my weights, and I have been trying to get more sessions in the gym and well my fitness has gone up and I think I am sort of getting the hang of the basics of Judo. Oh and I didn't mention it earlier, but I have done a bit of boxin before and also shotokan karate (its useless in a fight, but good dicipline for me)

Nimmy
11-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Well, I have taken all your words of wisdom in, and I have been training Judo from a guy I know who used to compete a lot ( for free :) ) I have also been working on my cardio, a lot more than my weights, and I have been trying to get more sessions in the gym and well my fitness has gone up and I think I am sort of getting the hang of the basics of Judo. Oh and I didn't mention it earlier, but I have done a bit of boxin before and also shotokan karate (its useless in a fight, but good dicipline for me)

tell that to lyoto machida and semy schildt, karate is undervalued in mma

Allan Shrek
11-08-2008, 01:09 PM
This is why at many 'local' MMA events in this country you only have to watch the fight for about 30 seconds and then when someone says: "what do you make of these two?" you go: "well he's blatantly a Muay Thai guy and the other seems to be from a Judo background." Too many people are relying on their 'original style/specialism' or whatever you want to call it because they think that it's what the top guys are doing, when it simply isn't.

Some might argue that too many MMA clubs in the UK focus too much on MMA and conditioning and we're not developing fighters with a strong technical base that would them to fight at the top level.

Without specialised instruction they are unable to develop and become something of a standardised MMA fighter and that standard type may not be best suited to their body type or mentality.

dunny
11-08-2008, 05:03 PM
thats true, but i think those people need to start at like, age 6 and become a stand out athlete in their chosen field, then make the transition, picking up from the exact same point as our friend here, except with a background in a particular discipline already in place

karl m
13-09-2008, 08:43 PM
I remember hearing that Evan Tanner taught himself with videos how to grapple.

he did but he had a partner to drill with.

Mauricio Shogun
13-09-2008, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE=JoeDurrant;213135]I want both fitness and eventually fight, I will be able to go to gym after my college course in a couple of years, and when I have some money coming in from a job. So untill I can find a job I am a bit screwed.[/QUOTE

Also i have college with no job but im doing a sports and science college course so i go gym on my breaks and do mma training but i have some training books from borders with helped me a lot and i recommend these


http://www.borders.co.uk/book/mixed-martial-arts-the-book-of-knowledge/590154/


http://www.borders.co.uk/book/wrestling-for-fighting-the-sport-of-mixed-
martial-arts/599600/


http://www.borders.co.uk/book/beyond-the-lions-den-the-life-the-fights-the-techniques/340545/

Mauricio Shogun
13-09-2008, 09:33 PM
the middle link didnt work so here it is

http://www.borders.co.uk/book/wrestling-for-fighting-the-sport-of-mixed-martial-arts/599600/

highlander1980
23-09-2008, 04:27 PM
How can people say instructionals are useless ?

What a load of shit, it may not be as effective as having someone there showing you the moves and correcting your technique but it's a damn good alternative if you don't have a coach or if you want to expand your game.

The reason most people cant get anything from watching instructionals is because they do just that....watch them.

Without eager training partners and lots of time to drill the techniques then yeah maybe they're pretty useless but I have learned a lot from them.

Yes but instructionals are most usefull for people who have experience, I can learn a submission from an instructional because i have grappled for 20 yrs and know how the body works in general when grappling. A newb would make mistakes without realising it and get that bad habit wet wired which then takes time to unlearn.
I would say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! You need to have understanding of fundamentals and that just cant be taught from instructionals because there is no feedback.

andyt1992
24-10-2008, 07:04 PM
the problem with training yourself is motivation and you will get distracted by your family e.g. lil brother annnoyin u mum askin to tidy room which yuh dnt get at the gym