qestion for smiler.......

[bigleeroy1]

hello mate you have the most knowledge in regards to this matter that i can think of on the forum so i hope you dont mind me asking.

I know when dieting or extreme dieting in my case that i dont really want to be eating carbs in the evening, the only problem is my evening training session does not finish till eight sometimes nine oclock. After this i am usually starving as im used to eating alot, i also find that when i have a high carb meal after my evening session my recovery is far greater than when i just a have a high protein no carb meal, i always still wake up sore and lethargic not good when i am training again first thing.

what would your advice be on this matter as for a while i have just gone no carb sucked it up and soldiered on whilst dieting but by the end of the week i feel ready to die.

thanks for your advice garry..... and any one else with usefull comments.

[tiptoe]

how about timing your carbs just around your workout then and just have protein in the others. this way your only going to be utilising the carbs you are eating before and then replenishing them after. I'd have my pwo shake with carbs in then a tup of cottage cheese or some eggs before bed.

[bigleeroy1]

yeah i usually have cottage cheese before bed infact i usally have a few tubs a day but in a small 200gm tub there is still 10grms of carbs.

i dont use protein shakes either mate i rely solely on my diet and eating good clean food ill only use shakes and the like as a last resort i would rather have a chicken breast than a protein shake.

[tiptoe]

fair enough mate i must admit i'm a supplement junkie! as i said though mate try have a go with just timing your complex carbs before and after. maybe brown rice as carb source before or sweet potato and maybe white rice or jacket potato after. then with other meals in day just veg. also if you wanted something straight after training maybe a banana followed by a protein and veg meal later.

[bigleeroy1]

im pretty well prepared and always eat within 20 to 30 mins after training i used to compete in track and field and was a complete supplement junkie but have learnt about how important a good diet is over time. just trying to make my diet and cut a little easier on myself.

thanks for the ideas and advice tho mate sometimes you might know stuff but just need it pointing out.

[tiptoe]

no worries mate. have to try and put the nutrition course i did ages ago to some use lol!

[bigleeroy1]

ttt for smiler

[Rosi]

I'm not smiler, but...

It's a difficult one to come up with a really satisfactory solution to. IMO it's impossible to train properly without some carbs... you can't do anaerobic exercise without it, your performance suffers and your risk of overtraining goes through the roof. I've yet to really be convinced of the benefits of a low carb diet for weight loss, except for in the last week of weight cutting when you're trying to get rid of glycogen. But I know some people swear by it - and if it works for you :)

Personally I'd always have at least some carbs straight after training. The crucial thing I think is to have it immediately after you finish training (in a drink is most easily absorbed) - literally as you're cooling down. You should find that this doesn't give you the same negative effects as having a carbohydrate meal an hour later.

Another option is to have your carbs pre-exercise. That way the exercise lowers the insulin response. You'll still feel like crap when you wake up in the morning, but at least it'll help to get through the session.

I know LewisJ has some good stuff on this sort of thing (he's doing a PhD in sports nutrition). Don't know how often he's on here though - might be worth PMing him.

[bigleeroy1]

thanks for the response rosi. what kind of carbs would you recomend after a session in a drink... meltodextrin? or something else and at what levels?

i understand everything you said in the response but like you said im finding it difficult to find a solution, i have to be very carefull due to the amount of weight i drop if i mess up i wont make weight or not safely anyway.

[Rosi]

I use maltodextrin, but I've also heard good things about waxy maize. You'll have to experiment with how much you need.

[bigleeroy1]

thanks rosi. I used to use meltodextrin to good effect.

[Smiler]

Hello!

You have PM!

Hope you are good...

Its a subject all about losing fat rather than weight...and eating the correct nutrition for fat loss - much advice on this subject always tends to be on the correct nutrition for optimum sporting performance, but fat loss adds another dimension.

I agree with Rosi that carb restriction is not a good idea. The science doesn't support it, your body will 'rebound'. In fact, don't cut out any of the nutritional food groups, your body needs them all...

The only 'restrictive diets' you should use are those that cut out the cr*p nutritionally poor food!

Its all about 'tricking' the body into burning fat, and for that the science is the same for all. But fortunately for men we are set up better for fat loss than women!

[tiptoe]

i'm currently taking myproteins revery xs which contains waxy maise and whey isolate. Have found it to really help and I don't suffer any disomfort in my stomach i get from glucose or maltodextrin.

[LewisJ]

Well surely whether you diet for fat loss or not will depend on how much body fat you actually have to lose (what's your body fat percent? and how was it measured?).

There are a couple of things worth thinking about with very low carb diets.

1. Combining a low carbohydrate diet with training is going to result in low levels of muscle/ liver glycogen, which is not only going to impair your training, but will mean you will get less of a reduction in body weight from glycogen depletion during your weight cut. The important question is are you better off eating more carbohydrates, training better, getting better adaptation to your training and having potentially more weight to lose when you glycogen deplete?

2. Training on a low carbohydrate diet will more than likely result in you selecting (subconsciously) to work at a lower pace or for less time during key training sessions and also might increase your chances of injury and illness (e.g. colds, flu etc).

3. A low carb diet might result in a reduction in blood pH (your blood will become more acidic), which can limit high intensity exercise performance and has potential health implications.

4. Whilst training in a low carb state can increase your capacity to burn fat during training and can also spare glycogen during exercise once glycogen has been replaced (i.e. between weigh-in and fight), it does result in reductions in key glycolytic enzymes that will potentially reduce performance at high exercise intensities (as experienced during an mma bout). Whilst the glycogen can be recovered before the fight (and will not be a limiting factor to mma performance as long as it's replaced), the activity of those enzymes will not be replaced in the 24-36 h and could therefore limit performance (and reduce it) due to training on a low carbohydrate diet.

There are some benefits to both high and low carbohydrate diets.

Hope some of that helps.
Lewis

[Rosi]

I love LewisJ's posts... great stuff