Using the same techniques

[Lou]

I'm after some advice!

I haven't been grappling for all that long,a year on and off maybe. I have learned a decent amount of techniques but I find I rely on only a couple of submissions, mainly guillotine or rear naked choke. Thing is,I grapple mainly with men who have at least a stone on me, and I find getting subs on the neck more practical.

I do get a decent amount of submissions and I do try out new moves, but is it bad that I specialise with these few moves? Chatting to my instructor he doesn't see it as a major issue as I do get them on a fair bit and I will fight for a good position first, so I'm not overtly worried, just after some advice from grappling people really.

Thanks :)

[widge milward]

IMO everybody has there "bread and butter" submissions which they will rely on most of the time. i just think with experience you will start to "see" the other subs and start to make them work.

[Lou]

Thanks :) It's frustrating me a little now as sparring with the same people all the time,they are starting to get used to it ,so that was what was making me think about it more.

[Rob T]

As long as you do try new stuff, don't worry about it.

The more techniques you can use in live rolling the better but you also (more importantly) need to be able to submit people. So if you find there are a couple of techniques you gets subs with more often, go for it. Keep adding different set-ups for those techniques.

[The Natural]

lou the head hunter..:)

some great advice here..dont worry, u discover more..

Personally...I say embrace the ones u are good at and as rob said look for differant set ups and differant positions to apply them.

[MikeyL]

learn 10th planet lol

[Lou]

Lol :D Thats a good one!

Thanks for the advice! Considering I wasn't all that keen on starting grappling I absolutely love it now.

[MikeyL]

I think its a combination of drilling shit loads then more mat time rolling

[Lou]

I'm not getting to drill as much as I would like at the moment as only got 1 2 hr mma session, doing more muay thai at the moment (3 sessions a week). Think I need to try and sort out where and when I train as really need to get another session a week on groundwork.Or join the gym again and drill things more in the studio.

[MikeyL]

Getting someone to drill with even for an extra hour a week will help loads. Ive just started to do it myself. Just wish I could get my lazy house mate to do it.....

[Lou]

I'm lucky that way as I train with my boyfriend, it's just finding somewhere to go as my house is tiny!

[MikeyL]

I imagine that leads to some interesting 'rolling' situations.....






sorry.

[Lou]

Lol :D

Nah, strict "no grappling in the house" policy applies. Though I did try distracting him while training on Saturday by winking at him.

[MikeyL]

no 'third hook'?

[Duchman]

i headhunt a lot now as well. used to be a foothunter. But lost to much position.
You should know and able to preform all positions, but you should have some KILLER moves. that you know you will have if you have them.
Learn the quilotine from mount, 69, sidemount, top and bottem half guard.. an different set ups.. Aslong as you dont become a headcruncher.

[Lou]

Cheers Duchman. I'm trying it from different ways now, managed to do it from standing at weekend and pulled guard,which I was quite pleased with.

[Rob T]

It's always good to add in stuff which works off those subs too.

So guillotine - kimura, sit up sweep, 100% sweep, triangle if you've got good flexibility and depending on how they're defending...


For RNC I would just look at working on more set-ups to take the back.

[Jay Evans]

Find new and inventive ways of putting your current techniques on :D? look at James Saville, he's only ever won by Armbar or Triangle I believe lmao or thats a close estimate!

[Lou]

I was thinking of Paul Sass too and his amazing record of winning with his triangle!

[Levo]

I'm after some advice!

I haven't been grappling for all that long,a year on and off maybe. I have learned a decent amount of techniques but I find I rely on only a couple of submissions, mainly guillotine or rear naked choke. Thing is,I grapple mainly with men who have at least a stone on me, and I find getting subs on the neck more practical.

I do get a decent amount of submissions and I do try out new moves, but is it bad that I specialise with these few moves? Chatting to my instructor he doesn't see it as a major issue as I do get them on a fair bit and I will fight for a good position first, so I'm not overtly worried, just after some advice from grappling people really.

Thanks :)

Guillotine + RNC is a common game for women to develop, the two smaller women who I train both favour them too. Same as for smaller guys or when rolling with strong, explosive wrestler types.

There's nothing wrong with specialising. In fact all the best grapplers do it, watch top guys and they often use very few techniques, and sometimes it's the same techniques they used all their career from blue belt up.

Just be careful of specialising too early in your grappling career and missing things that might work for you better or creating gaps in your game.

Imo, there are times to refine the game you use most and times to expand your game in new areas. Sometimes I refer to this as working your "A Game" and "B Game", other times as having a "Competition Game Plan" and a "Training Game Plan".

I think about it like this: My A Game is my high percentage moves, the stuff I use against someone good, if I want to dominate someone or if I was in a competition. My B Game or Training Game Plan, is other stuff I'm trying out and working in training. If something isn't working in the A Game it gets shifted to my B Game, and if something in B Game takes off it naturally finds it's way to my A Game.

To work my B Game and try new things out I generally use a trusted training partner to work with light or go with smaller guys and/or people not as good then work up the food chain till I get it on the best guys. As I'm teaching 90% of the time I'm on the mat this is my way to drill. When I hard roll I work my A Game.

Nathan

[The Natural]

good post nathan..

that gave me food for thought reading it..:D ..thanx

[Lou]

Guillotine + RNC is a common game for women to develop, the two smaller women who I train both favour them too. Same as for smaller guys or when rolling with strong, explosive wrestler types.

There's nothing wrong with specialising. In fact all the best grapplers do it, watch top guys and they often use very few techniques, and sometimes it's the same techniques they used all their career from blue belt up.

Just be careful of specialising too early in your grappling career and missing things that might work for you better or creating gaps in your game.

Imo, there are times to refine the game you use most and times to expand your game in new areas. Sometimes I refer to this as working your "A Game" and "B Game", other times as having a "Competition Game Plan" and a "Training Game Plan".

I think about it like this: My A Game is my high percentage moves, the stuff I use against someone good, if I want to dominate someone or if I was in a competition. My B Game or Training Game Plan, is other stuff I'm trying out and working in training. If something isn't working in the A Game it gets shifted to my B Game, and if something in B Game takes off it naturally finds it's way to my A Game.

To work my B Game and try new things out I generally use a trusted training partner to work with light or go with smaller guys and/or people not as good then work up the food chain till I get it on the best guys. As I'm teaching 90% of the time I'm on the mat this is my way to drill. When I hard roll I work my A Game.

Nathan

That's brilliant advice! Thanks :)

[Harley]

I find I rely on only a couple of submissions, mainly guillotine or rear naked choke.

Thanks :)

I'm small compared to most and Levo has helped me develop these beautifully into an A game, now incorporating triangles and omoplatas.

I always imagine it like a toolbox, you've only got a couple of tools but you know how to use them..then you just add to your toolbox. Oh and everyone's toolbox is different :D

[Levo]

I'm small compared to most and Levo has helped me develop these beautifully into an A game, now incorporating triangles and omoplatas.

For the record, small grapplers should be very careful with triangles. On the one hand you get to use the strength of your legs against their neck so it's a great move, but you also run the risk of getting stacked, which will suck and possibly get you injured if someone is bigger and stronger than you. Not to say at all small people shouldn't do them, just be especially aware of the stack if you're smaller.

Try different stuff off your A Game moves, play with them and see what sticks.

Nathan

PS Harley is developing a very good triangle. We've been working Ryan Hall's material at the gym, highly recommended.

[MikeyL]

if I get stacked when I have the triangle locked I always try and sweep them, or cup the leg then apply another 20% of squeeze.

we are talking about being stacked and not slammed?

[Levo]

if I get stacked when I have the triangle locked I always try and sweep them, or cup the leg then apply another 20% of squeeze.

we are talking about being stacked and not slammed?

Yes. And that's what SHOULD happen. But even monkeys fall out of trees.

If you're a smaller guy like me and have rolled much with big guys then at some point you'll have been injured getting folded up by some big meathead when going for an armbar or triangle from guard. If you a -60kg women and train with guys it could potentially be even more of a risk (depending on the level of training partners and how hard they go).

Like I say, triangles are good for small people as you use the strength of your legs (see Ryan Hall, Jeff Glover etc in open weight divisions using them). They are part of my A Game, even against +100kg guys.

Was just brining it up as a point of interest and safety as an instructor.

Nathan

[Duchman]

For the record, small grapplers should be very careful with triangles. On the one hand you get to use the strength of your legs against their neck so it's a great move, but you also run the risk of getting stacked, which will suck and possibly get you injured if someone is bigger and stronger than you.

Try different stuff off your A Game moves, play with them and see what sticks.

Nathan

Normaly i agree with 999,9 procent you write but. On this one i dont.. well not totaly.
I agree for A game, quilotines, RNC. butterfly sweeps, x guard.

But most small people do the traingle wrong. They have there hips caved in, and care to much about the arm. i tap much bigger guys all the time. But not with the traditional traingle. Where you basicly underhook the leg and are under him.
I rather 'eggshell' on my shouders out, so that my hips are straight. underhook the far arm.

In the end. if its with slamming. fuck traingles ;)

[Levo]

But most small people do the traingle wrong.

Most people do the triangle wrong in my experience.

My post above obviously wasn't clear, have edited it, hope it makes sense.

Nathan

[Duchman]

than i wrote that all for nothing.. o well 10 mins passed at work ;)

halls stuff i excellent.

[Duchman]

i have a clip i shot of a semi private from marcus vinicus. and he pretty much does the same thing for armbars as hall does. it was crazy tight. Ill try to find it.

[widge milward]

Are Ryan Halls Instructionals any good?

[Duchman]

Is your last name milward?

[widge milward]

lol ill obtain make ups for my scratched originals then, seems they got damaged moving house before i watched them

[Duchman]

Nice, the queen just called me. Im going for tea in a bit there.

[Levo]

i have a clip i shot of a semi private from marcus vinicus. and he pretty much does the same thing for armbars as hall does. it was crazy tight. Ill try to find it.

I'd be interested in seeing that.

------------------------

Right, I keep running in to the same problem, any advice?

As I'm mostly a coach I make comments based on peoples posts that are usually a) general advice for anyone b) advice based on personal experience c) advice I've found useful when coaching for people in a specific situation.

I'm rarely talking to anyone directly.

So, what I think is going to happen is people will read it and for someone it will make a difference but for most others it'll clearly not be for them.

For example, we are talking about a small women's game above and someone mentions triangles. As a coach I think I should point out there is a safety concern if you're smaller. Not everyone out there knows how to deal with a stack, has responsible training partners, has regular access to a good coach etc. But, everyone thinks I'm talking to them directly and saying they don't know how to deal with a stack etc. I get messages from people wondering why I've taught them the triangle when they are a smaller grappler and that I'm dissing their opinion.

Should my signature be: "Please bear in mind I may not be talking to YOU directly, even if I didn't make it clear in the post"? :confused:

;)

Nathan

[MikeyL]

squeeze ze knees

[Lou]

I thought your advice made loads of sense Levo, and I realised it was aimed at me. I'm not "that" small, I am 5'7 and about 65kg.

[The Natural]

i have a clip i shot of a semi private from marcus vinicus. and he pretty much does the same thing for armbars as hall does. it was crazy tight. Ill try to find it.

love to see that aaron..:D

[Duchman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwUFjKoyxJ4

im good for this world. tooo good.

Pease take no note of my lack of guns in that clip, and lack of tan, its old. Soon i will be waterboy.

[Rob Hannis]

... everyone thinks I'm talking to them directly and saying they don't know how to deal with a stack etc. I get messages from people wondering why I've taught them the triangle when they are a smaller grappler and that I'm dissing their opinion.

Should my signature be: "Please bear in mind I may not be talking to YOU directly, even if I didn't make it clear in the post"? :confused:

;)

Nathan

Nope let people learn to read properly, if they still struggle tell them to stop getting choked out as it's obviously messing thier head up.

Triangle has come on really well since working with levo, as has most of my game to be fair, guillotines are next I think. I keep going for them but haven't got them down yet.

On the game plan I've gone a step further looking at A, B and C games so I can rank my techniques a bit more to single out those ones I need to work on more (eg C = really shit needs lots of work). From doing so I can quite quickly convert them into competition game plans.

[Lou]

I am definitely going to think about the A game and B game. Planning to try and work more on other techniques at this week's session as I worry I may get limited. Having some other people to roll with would be good- I'm quite limited at the moment.

[Levo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwUFjKoyxJ4

Thank you.

Nathan

[Duchman]

i have fought, wiggled, tapped loads of armbars and there set ups. but this was by far the tightest i have been in from guard. it was not even funny being his demo partner for the seminar and private classes.

btw just checked your youtube channel the other day. real impresive wrestling from your fighters. note wrestling, not just takedowns :)

[MikeyL]

I am trying to only try new things when rolling then I can go to my trainers and say 'I always get stuck here' or 'Can we drill this, can you tell me my weaknesses?' that way im tightning my 'go to' moves and expanding on stuff I want to know

[Levo]

btw just checked your youtube channel the other day. real impresive wrestling from your fighters. note wrestling, not just takedowns :)

Thanks. I'll be putting up lots more clips of my students over the coming weeks. Got 100s of fights to pick from!

Nathan

[The Natural]

Thanks. I'll be putting up lots more clips of my students over the coming weeks. Got 100s of fights to pick from!

Nathan

nathan..

any chance i could get a link to these?

would love to see them..;)

[Levo]

nathan..

any chance i could get a link to these?

would love to see them..;)

http://uk.youtube.com/user/LevoUK

Just put up a couple of old ones from circa 2003 but there's more recent stuff too.

Nathan

[The Natural]

thanx man..appreciated

excellent clips..ur guys look very skilled!

[MikeD]

Lou,

just food for thought

Might be worth finding a Judo club that's got some women. The university judo clubs might be useful for this. Is Kendal too far to travel ?

The reason I suggest this is because I'm 66kg (on a good day) and sometimes find that techniques that work on larger more rigid men don't work on women 'cause they're too flippin' flexible.


Mike

[Lou]

Kendal isn't far at all, my instructor mentioned going up there to try it. I'll get my ass well and truly handed to me there :D

[Levo]

excellent clips..ur guys look very skilled!

Cheers. Will try to get some more up this afternoon.

Nathan