Increased Hand Speed ?

[Bateman]

Is it possible to increase your hand speed. I understand that cutting weight and getting fitter will help this but is there anyway you can train to get your hands to that bit faster ? any excersizes or any training equipment that will help ? I already train in 18's and 16's oz gloves.

Thanks

[ReD_mIst]

Interesting question.

I've never been convinced that wearing big gloves improves hand speed. Isn't that adding weight, which is essentially resistance training, so you would build strength and stamina, not speed. Also, isn't it gravity that is exerting force on that weight, which is pulling the hands down to the ground, so the resistance isn't along the same line as the punch is travelling

I think that speed would come partially from the number of fast twitch muscle fibres you have (I don't think that can be changed) and improvement in technqiue. Learning how to stay relaxed in the shoulders and arms and to use the body to throw the shots, so that the punches develop more 'snap' to them.

Interested in other peoples thoughts.....

[black gerbil1]

ive been told using focus pads the correct way can improve hand speeds.

[ReD_mIst]

Do you have a full answer... i.e. which way to use the pads?

Focus mitts are mainly to build speed and accuracy, so I think you are reasonably correct, however, it's still about the technique used to throw the shots.

A good pad man can make most fighters look faster and better, meeting the punches well and matching the snap of the fighters shots.

[Travis Bickle]

Learning how to stay relaxed in the shoulders and arms and to use the body to throw the shots, so that the punches develop more 'snap' to them.

I'd agree with that, also you might consider learning a real Martial Art like Wing Chung for example, very fast hands :rolleyes:

[ReD_mIst]

Yes, learn a kung fu chain punch...

[boxingbrit]

I have a fair few drills that i do that defionately increase your speed of punching. I will sho you at the gym Aaron, difficult to explain on here.

[ReD_mIst]

I have a fair few drills that i do that defionately increase your speed of punching. I will sho you at the gym Aaron, difficult to explain on here.

Are they drills that imrpove technique and developing a more relaxed punching style?

[boxingbrit]

Not really technique tbh, they do need you to be relaxed. I have done some with matt T before. Padwork and bags IMO ar where you should drill your proper technique.

Pads are great for accuracy and effective punch power. They are where you will develop you KO punch with a combination of speed, power and sharpness.

Bags are great for conditioning of the muscles involved in punching

Shadow boxing IMHO is where it is at for punch speed

[ReD_mIst]

I'll probably be OK. In boxing gloves my punches are quick, but in MMA gloves my hands are stupidly fast.... ;)

[boxingbrit]

Hehehe


The old ones are always the best


In a condom i'm quick but without i'm.... :(

[ReD_mIst]

Hehehe


The old ones are always the best


In a condom i'm quick but without i'm.... :(


That's why I have the weekend job at the Old People's Home... they may be dry... but they are experienced!

[Bateman]

Interesting question.



I think that speed would come partially from the number of fast twitch muscle fibres you have (I don't think that can be changed) and improvement in technqiue. Learning how to stay relaxed in the shoulders and arms and to use the body to throw the shots, so that the punches develop more 'snap' to them.

Interested in other peoples thoughts.....

Thanks, i have tried relaxing and flicking out the punches but ist doesnt seem any faster. I feel my shorter range tight punching is quicker than the longer punch...

is the answer more padwork and sparring, less bagwork ? stick with the heavy gloves... ?

[hfa/boxing]

padwork is probably the best exercise for getting faster but if you really concentrete on speed and sharpness on a bag then that is almost as good i think the difference is when your on the pads youve always got someone watchin you tellin you to be quicker but on a bag its easy to get carried away with yourself trying to punch hard. i profer smaller gloves or bag mitts on bags cos i think if you feel quicker youl probably be quicker big gloves make me feel a bit sluggish. thats just my opinion though

[boxingbrit]

The problem with pads is a quick padman can make you feel faster when they are doing a lot of the work meeting the pads for you. I wouldnt use them for that purpose

[Bateman]

have you got any pointers you can share ?

[hfa/boxing]

a good padman can make you get your hands back faster using the pad to imitate a counter punch cos without getting your hands back its only half a punch. also if your padman doesnt leave a pad there for too long youve got to be fast to hit it. like i said though only my opinion

[boxingbrit]

I agree you do, but that doesnt actuallyu make you faster at punching

[Duchman]

Do these drills work on lefties? or are they being discriminated again.

[Smiler]

Hi!

There are two ways of increasing physical speed of punching.

The first is by getting the technique right, relaxing, getting the mechanics right, and by physically throwing the punches as fast as you can. Be careful not to drive your car with your foot on the breaks. (Thanks Tiny for the saying!) This does not increase your physical speed, it just means that you can get as fast as your body will currently allow.

The technical training can be done through any number of ways, including padwork, bagwork, drilling, shadowboxing...

The second way of getting quicker is to get your body moving faster than before. One way is to not wear goves, and throw your punches without the resistance of weight, therefore not restricting them and allowing them to go faster. Another way is one I have had significant increases in speed from, and thats the use of bungy cords.

In respect to bungy cords, I see people using them punching against the resistance, saying that it will speed them up. It won't. By working against the resistance you are actually training your muscles to fire up slower, although of course you are training them to be stronger.

With the bungies for speed do them in reverse - ie. allow them to pull your punches out faster than you can throw them. This will keep your body training to go quicker than was possible before.

To recap, free resistance and get correct technique, then allow your punches to be accelerated faster than possible on their own. You will train your neurological reactions and physical reactions to increase in speed.

Think of it like sprinting. To increase leg power they do things like hill sprints, parachute training etc. However, to increase pure speed they do downhill sprints, catapults, being towed - anything that makes it possible for them to move quicker.

Hope this helps, its an area thats well overlooked or misunderstood. I've been working with the Army Boxing Team Coach, and the PT school, in order to try and work out ways of effectively increasing quickness in handspeed...

Smiler

[marc goddard]

Hi!

There are two ways of increasing physical speed of punching.

The first is by getting the technique right, relaxing, getting the mechanics right, and by physically throwing the punches as fast as you can. Be careful not to drive your car with your foot on the breaks. (Thanks Tiny for the saying!) This does not increase your physical speed, it just means that you can get as fast as your body will currently allow.

The technical training can be done through any number of ways, including padwork, bagwork, drilling, shadowboxing...

The second way of getting quicker is to get your body moving faster than before. One way is to not wear goves, and throw your punches without the resistance of weight, therefore not restricting them and allowing them to go faster. Another way is one I have had significant increases in speed from, and thats the use of bungy cords.

In respect to bungy cords, I see people using them punching against the resistance, saying that it will speed them up. It won't. By working against the resistance you are actually training your muscles to fire up slower, although of course you are training them to be stronger.

With the bungies for speed do them in reverse - ie. allow them to pull your punches out faster than you can throw them. This will keep your body training to go quicker than was possible before.

To recap, free resistance and get correct technique, then allow your punches to be accelerated faster than possible on their own. You will train your neurological reactions and physical reactions to increase in speed.

Think of it like sprinting. To increase leg power they do things like hill sprints, parachute training etc. However, to increase pure speed they do downhill sprints, catapults, being towed - anything that makes it possible for them to move quicker.

Hope this helps, its an area thats well overlooked or misunderstood. I've been working with the Army Boxing Team Coach, and the PT school, in order to try and work out ways of effectively increasing quickness in handspeed...

Smiler

good stuff mate.

[Bateman]

Hi!

There are two ways of increasing physical speed of punching.

The first is by getting the technique right, relaxing, getting the mechanics right, and by physically throwing the punches as fast as you can. Be careful not to drive your car with your foot on the breaks. (Thanks Tiny for the saying!) This does not increase your physical speed, it just means that you can get as fast as your body will currently allow.

The technical training can be done through any number of ways, including padwork, bagwork, drilling, shadowboxing...

The second way of getting quicker is to get your body moving faster than before. One way is to not wear goves, and throw your punches without the resistance of weight, therefore not restricting them and allowing them to go faster. Another way is one I have had significant increases in speed from, and thats the use of bungy cords.

In respect to bungy cords, I see people using them punching against the resistance, saying that it will speed them up. It won't. By working against the resistance you are actually training your muscles to fire up slower, although of course you are training them to be stronger.

With the bungies for speed do them in reverse - ie. allow them to pull your punches out faster than you can throw them. This will keep your body training to go quicker than was possible before.

To recap, free resistance and get correct technique, then allow your punches to be accelerated faster than possible on their own. You will train your neurological reactions and physical reactions to increase in speed.

Think of it like sprinting. To increase leg power they do things like hill sprints, parachute training etc. However, to increase pure speed they do downhill sprints, catapults, being towed - anything that makes it possible for them to move quicker.

Hope this helps, its an area thats well overlooked or misunderstood. I've been working with the Army Boxing Team Coach, and the PT school, in order to try and work out ways of effectively increasing quickness in handspeed...

Smiler

thanks smiler, makes sense. i will give that a go. might make my arms longer in the process

[Nak-Muay]

Hi!

There are two ways of increasing physical speed of punching.

The first is by getting the technique right, relaxing, getting the mechanics right, and by physically throwing the punches as fast as you can. Be careful not to drive your car with your foot on the breaks. (Thanks Tiny for the saying!) This does not increase your physical speed, it just means that you can get as fast as your body will currently allow.

The technical training can be done through any number of ways, including padwork, bagwork, drilling, shadowboxing...

The second way of getting quicker is to get your body moving faster than before. One way is to not wear goves, and throw your punches without the resistance of weight, therefore not restricting them and allowing them to go faster. Another way is one I have had significant increases in speed from, and thats the use of bungy cords.

In respect to bungy cords, I see people using them punching against the resistance, saying that it will speed them up. It won't. By working against the resistance you are actually training your muscles to fire up slower, although of course you are training them to be stronger.

With the bungies for speed do them in reverse - ie. allow them to pull your punches out faster than you can throw them. This will keep your body training to go quicker than was possible before.

To recap, free resistance and get correct technique, then allow your punches to be accelerated faster than possible on their own. You will train your neurological reactions and physical reactions to increase in speed.

Think of it like sprinting. To increase leg power they do things like hill sprints, parachute training etc. However, to increase pure speed they do downhill sprints, catapults, being towed - anything that makes it possible for them to move quicker.

Hope this helps, its an area thats well overlooked or misunderstood. I've been working with the Army Boxing Team Coach, and the PT school, in order to try and work out ways of effectively increasing quickness in handspeed...

Smiler

And on the agenda tonight... :D

[peterm]

Gary,

You may well be right about this in terms of developing punching speed but the sprinting analogy you use is not sound.

There is some difference of opinion but the general consensus is not in favour of overspeed training which does not appear to have any significant or lasting benefit in improving sprint speed. The argument against is that when being towed, the athlete is being pulled ahead of his centre of gravity which leads to a lower hip position increasing ground contact time- when the opposite is required- and disturbing leg mechanics.

The above does not make you wrong in what you say with regard to punching speed but I would like clearer evidence than subjective impression.

[Smiler]

Hi Peter,

Have a look at chapter 15 'Theory and Practice of Speed Development' in Sports Training Principles by Frank W. Dick. Gives all the details to the rough 'summary' I produced, including the importance of acceleration and maintenance of technique through form. Rolling starts, pulley starts, downhill starts are all described, as well as the all important 'optimum speed', ie. 'going as close to maximum speed as possible without compromising the technical models.' The correct use of these methods is described, rather than the way I just gave the titles.

For example, the towing system is part of the way of getting the athlete to maximum speed as effortlessly as possibly, therefore enabling to maintain their maximum speed once released for longer. It is not designed to pull the athlete through maximum speed, but to get them there quicker so they can work harder for longer at maximum while maintaining optimum technique.

The development of speed relies on innervation, elasticity, biochemistry, muscle relaxability, will power, action acceptor, environment, aptitude...thanks Frank...lots too it...

The book has all the reference material for you to read too.

And I haven't started on the benefits of appropriate plyometrics in increasing speed...

What I have done is produce a speed system which applies all of the principles of speed development to punching, and in my post I have only skimmed over it, I've only given the basic and am working on far more.

What I have seen is a measurable increase in my hand speed, and some test subjects, through the work I've been doing. This is from the action acceptor (recognising and selecting appropriate response, ie. target becoming available and selecting the right punch to hit the target) through to the speed of the punching also.

Please remember I am an athlete, and am only concerned with improvements. I therefore haven't set up a system of scientific testing - not set up to do that.

But, I'm happy with what I'm seeing, based on applying the results of studies carried out by others on various different sports, that I'm correct in saying that I am seeing a hand speed increase in myself and the test subjects.

Hope this helps a little!

Smiler

[Duchman]

I put my self with a rope after a cap. I run alot faster since.

(dont try at home kids)

[peterm]

Gary,

I am not saying that your methods will not work for punching and obviously I fully understand and accept that you are in the business of producing results not carrying out scientific testing to prove or disprove any particular theory
or training method.

With that in mind what I am saying is that in so far as you are looking at overspeed methods as applied to sprinting the evidence is not unequivocally supportive. We can make all sorts of claims that this exercise has such and such effect but we do need to be clear whether the evidence is actually there rather than simply assuming it to be the case.

I am not sure when Frank Dick was last involved in hands on coaching but looking at the work of leading sprint coaches such as John Smith, Dan Pfaff and Charlie Francis the use is just not there as you might expect if the method was proven beyond doubt.

Pfaff has written that “My biggest complaint with the overspeed sessions I have seen is that postures, foot strikes and rhythms evolve that are not used in real time sprinting. These aberrations can cause injury…and often destroy ground to air ratios”.

Charlie Francis has also commented on the fact that that ground contact times are actually increased by overspeed training when the opposite is required.

Sprinting involves mass-specific forces applied to the ground in the shortest time possible and is not the function of the speed of repositioning the limbs so it is unlikely that overspeed training will have any significant effect on speed.

As regards research, the following study from J Strength Cond Res 2003; 17(1):72-5 was written about in Peak Performance:

Californian researchers looked at the use of elastic-chord towing devices for improving acceleration in nine collegiate sprinters who ran two 20-metre maximal sprints (MSs) and towed sprints (TSs). In particular, they measured selected kinematics of the acceleration phase of sprinting, which were recorded on high-speed video. One complete stride at the 15-metre point on the fastest trial was digitised for computer analysis.
The team discovered that there were significant differences for horizontal velocity of the centre of mass (CoM), stride length (SL), and horizontal distance from the CoM of the foot, to the CoM of the body for the MSs group compared to the TSs group. However, these differences mitigated against improved acceleration as they were contrary to optimum sprint acceleration requirements; it turned out that due to the pull of the elastic chord, the TSs group was unable to ‘drive their legs’ as effectively as they would without such assistance. The increased forward momentum imparted by the over-speed method prevented them from getting their body and their feet into the required optimum driving position, which meant that the desired leg drive and ‘pushing back’ of the track surface was disrupted.

To be fair the study related to acceleration not top speed but I think you will be hard pressed to find any conclusive studies on the benefit of overspeed training applied to sprinting. At best there remains a question mark.

Apart from that quibble -carry on as you are obviously doing with success.

[Smiler]

Hi!

Where you been Pete? Lol, I miss your posts - they make me question, and in doing so learn more...hope you are well!

To keep a good discussion developing, and to give a bit of fuel to the fire...

No sweat and fully understood and accepted on your first point! I'm just a bit regretful, as I now know good science from bad science, and I would love to develop appropriate testing to see the effects - just don't have time...I know what I'm doing is working, but without appropriate testing I won't know by how much, which techniques are working quickest, which are red herrings...thats also where is good to have other studies pointed out that appear to go against some of what I am reading, it keeps you questioning, keeps you learning...

I like what you say in respect to the sprint coaches. However, here's a thought. In respect to top boxing coaches, there are many coaches who do the same thing 'because we always do' rather than looking at developments in sport, and seeing if they can be applied. I wonder if this happens in sprint coaching too?

In respect to the overspeed techniques, the suggested methods were not for acceleration but maintenance of total speed, as you have rightly suggested. The pulley system in particular is put forward to 'catapult' the athlete to top speed, taking some of the effort out of the acceleration process, therefore allowing them to maintain perfect form at top speed for longer. He terms this a 'forced speed' approach.

He also suggests 'assisted speed' work such as altitude sprinting, downhill runs, wind-assisted runs. This is supported by Osolin (1952) - long time ago that one! It is further referenced by Upton and Radford (1975), who state that 'fast limb movements improve the motoneuron excitability and the more synchronous firing of motorneurons.'

This is further supported by Ballreich (1975).

Above all though, the one theme throughout the section on speed development is the need for perfect technique, and indeed, an athlete will gain far more benefits from working to perfect their technique than they will do on conditioning work.

But, of course, 'overspeeding' is just one element of striking speed. In order to gain the best speed overall I've been developing, and discovering, techniques in training to get the most efficient and fast techniques possible, throughout the following:

1. Response time, ie. target becoming available, selection of strike, execution of strike.
2. Capacity to accelerate through the strike
3. Capacity to adjust rapidly following execution of one technique in order to apply another
4. Achievement of maximum speed during the strike
5. Capacity to maintain maximum speed when reached throughout entire combinations
6. Capacity to limit the effect of endurance factors on speed of striking
7. the speed capacity to chose correct action options

I'm still developing methods as I go...and always open to suggestions and reading of research!

Best regards,

Smiler

[Nak-Muay]

*needs a sports science degree* ;)

[Smiler]

Lol, no you don't mate.

All you need to do is keep reading and questioning and researching and learning! I've got a degree education and am Chartered, but not in the field of sport or even a science! The only formal sports qualification I have is an Advanced College Certificate in Physical Education and Recreation - and thats just an A-level equivalent...and I did that in 1989...

However, as an athlete who questions and researches, I'm probably much better educated than many personal trainers, strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists etc, together with being better placed than most PHD or degree guys in sports science...I put the theory in with the practice...relative to my sports...and keep learning...(I see some terrible PT's out there with such a minimal knowledge, and often a 'one size fits all' qualification process...they don't realise that all they have is a base to learn from, not the be all and end all...)

Thats why I love posts by people like PeterM, LewisK and co...they keep adding to my knowledge base...question what I preach...making me research and learn some more...

For example, if they put forward a term I don't know, I go away and find out what it means...

If they say some research that counters mine I listen and look it up so I can get balance...

The benefits of a sports science degree is to provide a base to learn from - but you don't need a degree to do that - a degree just tells people that you've achieved that base.

I haven't got that, so to prove my knowledge, hell, to increase my knowledge, I put forward suggestions based on my research to be questioned - in that way I question myself, and learn...

Damn I've turned into such an anorack!!!!

Smiler

[David Butlin]

Aaron, Mid has some awesome drills that improved my hand speed in no time. Huge amount has to do with your breathing techniques.

D

[boxingbrit]

^^^^^thats what i'm going to show him on Sat^^^ excellent. Noon he hs taught has slow hands!!

[jimmy_bullard]

Its just my opinion and I'm not an expert on it but if you look at this guy;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbbLZZs80DE&feature=related
He's pretty quick and he uses no fancy training techniques just spars, hits the pads, hits the bags and shadow boxes 40 to 50 rounds a day plus he's been training for 18 years so personally I think its a lot about highly specific muscle memories. On the subject of fast twitch muscle fibres If you look at Joe calzaghe he has the incredibly quick hands for a light-heavyweight (though not as quick as roy jones jr) and he doesn't seem to have an explosive body type so I would say whilst its better to have fast twitch muscle fibres its not essential.

[jimmy_bullard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0vZUjcctgo&feature=related
This is probably a better video to show how much faster pacquiao is than anyone in mma not matter how sophisticatedly they train or how naturally explosive they are.

[David Butlin]

I think at times people can try and be too scientific. Its fuckin fighting at the end of the day. Simple shit works, complicated shit doesnt. Just my uneducated opinion.

D

[ReD_mIst]

If you look at Joe calzaghe he has the incredibly quick hands for a light-heavyweight (though not as quick as roy jones jr) and he doesn't seem to have an explosive body type so I would say whilst its better to have fast twitch muscle fibres its not essential.

yes... but this topic is about how to punch quickly, not slap quickly. If boxing refs had any balls in the UK and didn't sit in promoters pockets, Calzaghe would of been DQ'd along time ago, for hitting with the inside of the glove and 'cuffing'

[boxingbrit]

Aaron and Dave are botjh correct. Clazaghe should have been warnd for some of the shots he has produced.

Reading this read (or not with some posts) i'd agree that people are over complicating things or are confused about what will make them faster. I've seen some of th fastest hndspeed in the world from guys training in literally nearly a shed. Then people who are using all these scientific methods looking comparably slow in fights.

[Smiler]

Hi!

Oh well, I was just responding to the thread in the most complete manner possible - the question was how to increase hand speed, so the answer was given.

1. Get the technique right
2. Improve the speed of your physical reactions

I then gave suggestions, got questions, gave answers with evidence where possible.

I may have looked slow in the past, definately not slow now. http://www.youtube.com/user/garysmilerturner and you can see by the date of the vids when it was shot, what I looked like before, and trust me much more work has been done since.

Personally, I would never discount advice. OK, me and PeterM may have gone into it a bit deeper, but hey, thats our interest, to know why as well as how. And trust me, if people are improving their handspeed, they are doing so with 'scientific principles' whether they like it or not.

As an example, my post of yesterday contains points 1-7 which will be necessary to gain complete speed, they are the elements that need looking at.

Be interested in your suggestions as to how to improve on them?

Cheers,

Smiler

[boxingbrit]

My comment about speed wasn't directed at you, i dont know why you'd think that. I have never seen you throw a punch

[Smiler]

Sorry mate, it just appeared that way from your post and the ones you referenced.

I've thrown one or two punches over the years...

It seemed to me that you were coming over a little simplistic, er, a little anti academic, when I know your background and that you have a degree in sports science? And I know how you break down your teaching of hands into some very good drills and principles, hitting key target areas first to get the biggest improvements first...the result of being a good amateur boxer who thinks...

Go on, give us some drills...if they aren't already being used they'll definately be given a try...

Best regards,

Smiler

[boxingbrit]

I have offered to show a few guys via PM who are visiting. I tried to put it into words but i didnt understand it myself. I'm sure we will train together some time and i am happy to show you.

[Duchman]

Holy shit?!? you answer pm's.

sorry cant help it ;) im a bad duchman

[boxingbrit]

You wont need the teachings till your back. I will show you then:)

[boxingbrit]

It seemed to me that you were coming over a little simplistic, er, a little anti academic, when I know your background and that you have a degree in sports science? And I know how you break down your teaching of hands into some very good drills and principles

I think peopl can over complicate things. As you say this may seem odd coming from someon who has studied Sports Science for over 10 years but i think people jump too quickly into over complicated exsercises and drills without laying the foundations.

Wht you have put is great for you (i'm assuming your level from what i have read not seen) as you have a great foundation in technique etc. I wouldnt advise it to people with only a few years striking experience to do. To me they are mising mor important drills.

Similar to a beginner following a Bodybuilders routine they read in Flex without having any training on compound exercises.

Just my opinion

[Smiler]

Hi, shout me up if ever you are down south and I'm sure we can learn from each other! I have good access to facilities and people like the Army boxing team - could be good to help sharpen you up for a fight as well?

I fully agree with your last two statements - 100%. Building on a good foundation is key to everything.

Smiler

[boxingbrit]

I will take you up on that offer, thanks:)

[David Butlin]

Dont forget your headguard :-P

[David Butlin]

For the record I wasnt directing my post at any individual. I was taught some really simple drills that quickly improve your hand speed. None involved any use of equipment.

I also listen to advice and will prolly give some a try. But I know whats worked for me, my brothers and my students.

D

[Smiler]

Lol, you should always wear a headguard in sparring - its not worth the risk of getting silly cuts that can be avoided. We always spar constructively - the time to hurt people is in a fight...definately not in training...

I was sparring with Peter Aerts at Kops Gym. I walked into his right hand, but it didn't connect. I asked 'goofy' why he didn't throw it, he said that hey 'Tina', (Tina Turner) I like sparring with you, and it might have put a stop to our session if it had connected - not worth risking ending training for getting one shot in. He said I knew it was there, he knew it was there - no point in proving it, then gave me one of his goofy smiles!

Ian will be well looked after if he makes it down. Lol, and yep, I'll definately be wearing my headguard!!!

Smiler

[boxingbrit]

I hate them, they are good for stopping superficial injuries but bad for slipping etc as you tend to over compensate. Depends on style i suppose. After writing my final year project on the dangers of headguard s and the reason they should be removed from amateur boxing i dont think i'd put one on again.

Dr Robert Cantu has loads of info on this if you want a reference but its a different topic and i would be going on for ages!! :)

[Smiler]

No, but its an interesting subject!

The only reason I wear one is for the superficial injuries - I can't afford cuts, and it also helps to avoid lumps and bumps.

No other reason, although if you can slip a punch in a headguard, you can slip without - just don't overcompensate as you say...

Headguards can also help with head injuries if your head is in contact with the ground...but I think thats about it...

Larger target area, slightly more weight in the head, deadens senses, all conspire to actually getting hit more. Not sure how much impact is taken out by a tiny bit of foam either. Also can apply 'pressure points' to the head that may be detrimental. Add in that often people feel 'safer' in the headguards and allow them to take more shots than they should...

I'll have a look at the reference, be good to read up on a study that may effect my views...

Your dissertation was alot more interesting than mine. Mine was on the 'Misuse of mortar in construction'....zzzzzzzzz...

Smiler

[Duchman]

i just wear a swimming headgear. To protect my horrid ears.

[boxingbrit]

Your dissertation was alot more interesting than mine. Mine was on the 'Misuse of mortar in construction'....zzzzzzzzz...

Smiler

lol, yeah. I am happy with no references;)

[peterm]

Gary,

There is not much taste for this sort of discussion here so I will be as brief as possible.

I don’t think that given the limitations in exercise science you can rely exclusively on published studies but equally you cannot rely totally on tradition or what appears subjectively or "obviously" to be the case.

What I am saying is not that you are wrong about the development of punching power but simply that Sprinting has different considerations and apparent evidence in support of your approach needs to be looked at carefully.

In the case of sprinting there are strong reasons against over speed training based on altering biomechanical patterns but the most important difference is that speed is determined by ground forces NOT by the speed of repostioning the limbs through the air. It may be counter intuitive but isolated limb speed is not significantly different between fast and slow runners.

Look at the work of Harvard research physiologist Peter Weyand. In the course of analyzing human runners of varying abilities at top speed he discovered that the very fastest sprinters reposition their legs in the air from back to front during a stride no faster than the slowest runners with there being only a 360- to 400-millisecond difference among subjects. Stronger ground forces lead to both less ground time and longer strides which together give rise to faster running.

In the light of the above what do we actually know about speed of limb movement in boxing as opposed to what we assume is happening?

[Smiler]

Hi Pete! Only 14 posts mate, but every one worth the average poster's 1000!

Thanks!

Interestingly, Men's Fitness (that well known science journal, not!) has an interview with Dwain Chambers in the back page...he says 'Right now I'm working on over-acceleration, getting up to speed as quickly as possible. Its my weak area. I've got to run better from 0 to 60 metres.'

Over-acceleration? This may, and probably does, point towards versions of over speed training in a different word...

Of course I'm an athlete first and foremost, but have an anorak's interest in the science behind it - I gotta know why and how something works and how to improve on it. So I get busy increasing my knowledge and practising and testing at the same time, looking for science reading to prove and disprove...so I can tweak...and I can't find any studies into punching speed directly so I have to hunt for base principles, of which you've been very helpful with too! Sprinting is just one area I've been looking at as there's quite alot of research...the effects of plyometrics and how it works has been a furhter subject area though I'm just moving into that now to see what I can gleam from how it can influence the development of speed...

In respect to punching, I am looking at reaction times, from recognition of target, selection of strike, and execution of strike, together with the speed of altering mid strike.

In very brief, to do this the first way has been to look at mechanics and physiology to make the punch efficient. This is basically getting the technique right. Next I've looked at improving the efficiency, taking the breaks off better, including relaxation of muscles and breathing techniques. Then its been working the good ol' noggin', working on selection and recognition times getting as quick as possible. Then its been working on speed of change from one selected strike to another. Then, and only then, I've been looking at ways of speeding up the actual physicalities of punching by way of training the muscles and the neurological pathways. I've been playing and exploring various ways of working the above in myself and my clients trying to get the way that has best effect...

I think that the overspeed training comes into play on improving relaxation and helping the neurological firing. But thats just me, and I don't have the testing set up to prove...

Exercise science has so many limitations, as you say. I just look to see what can create an edge - and your last statement is so very true. However, I would change my version of this statement to remove the word 'assume'. I don't assume in this type of situtation - I 'question', or 'explore', looking to learn rather than assume...hopefully you get what I mean...

Maybe one day a talented sports scientist will produce the definitive study into a boxer's hand speed. I think we'll have a long wait...

Smiler