Saturated Fat - good or bad?!?

[Smiler]

Hi!

Not being one to take what I'm told without doing my own research to fully understand a subject, I'm researching saturated fats at the moment.

I'm not finding any studies that conclusively prove that saturated fat causes heart disease. Instead I'm find lots of bad or flawed science, incorrect or tenuous conclusions...and that most of the Government fat advice comes from a flawed USA study in 1953!

It seems to be as flawed as the MMR 'hoax'...

What I am finding is that there are lots of studies showing saturated fat is GOOD for you...

And also that there is alot more evidence to state that diets high in refined sugar and wheat have a far greater effect on heart disease...

What do you guys think?

Smiler

[Smiler]

Oh, and on the jokey side, someone put a really funny post on my Facebook about a comment on saturated fat...told me that he knew all about saturated fat, his wife just went out in the rain without a brolly!!!

[black gerbil1]

I don't know much about Saturated fat, but you need some (dont know how much exactly) as part of a healthy diet. what has this post got to do with heart disease, i dont know lol

Taken from the British Heart Foundation.

If you eat too much saturated fat, you could increase your blood cholesterol levels and raise your risk of coronary heart disease.

not a study though.

[DanCrase]

Oh, and on the jokey side, someone put a really funny post on my Facebook about a comment on saturated fat...told me that he knew all about saturated fat, his wife just went out in the rain without a brolly!!!

Hahahahaha.....cold

[Waterboy]

Hi!

Not being one to take what I'm told without doing my own research to fully understand a subject, I'm researching saturated fats at the moment.

I'm not finding any studies that conclusively prove that saturated fat causes heart disease. Instead I'm find lots of bad or flawed science, incorrect or tenuous conclusions...and that most of the Government fat advice comes from a flawed USA study in 1953!

It seems to be as flawed as the MMR 'hoax'...

What I am finding is that there are lots of studies showing saturated fat is GOOD for you...

And also that there is alot more evidence to state that diets high in refined sugar and wheat have a far greater effect on heart disease...

What do you guys think?

Smiler

Interesting post mate, and I concur with what you seem to have found. If you're referring to the study I think you are, it was conducted in a macro/statistical fashion, with no biological study of the effects of saturated fat on the body? And also excluded many countries data which have high fat intake/low heart disease such as Meditteranean countries.

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=nutrition&category=food.for.fitness&conitem=b675909829731110VgnVCM10000013281eac____

Everything I've read in performance periodicals, books like Ross Enamit's, websites such as www.watercure.com (kudos Mr Butlin), suggests that there is little or no link between consumption of saturated fat, cholesterol itself, and the levels of cholesterol in your own body.

Basically, EATING FAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU FAT. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, food companies have pulled the wool over our eyes to line their own pockets - by assuring us that their foods are 'low fat' (an easy achievement on the production line), yet pumping us full of sugar, carbs, transfats and e numbers, they've warped our notions of what 'healthy food' is, and crippled the health of nations in the process (excuse the pun).

Saturated fat is very calorific, so in one sense you need to watch how much of it you eat, but ONLY as a factor of your daily calorie intake.

On a purely anecdotal level, I have an extremely high fat intake - organic peanut butter, avocados, olive oil, butter, unpasteurised cheese, macadamias etc, and my body fat is never above about 12% even out of training, and my cholesterol is low. I don't eat any 'pure' carbs. No bread, no potatoes, rice, pasta. Sugar intake is limited to post training, and organic honey/maple syrup.

As you say Smiler, I've not been able to find any 'good science' reasons why I should cut down on saturated fat, or cholesterol in eggs etc. Trans fats are the devil of course, as is margarine etc, but good old butter and oil won't do you no harm.

Sadly the best and brightest in this area aren't working for the British Health Foundation, or even the BMA - they're employed by Nestle, Astra Zeneca and the even US Department of Defence etc...

[Waterboy]

..

And also that there is alot more evidence to state that diets high in refined sugar and wheat have a far greater effect on heart disease...



Both refined sugar and wheat are things that, until the industrial revolution, we as humans were not able to eat. Both require a mechanical process to make it to an edible state. If you subscribe to Darwin's theories, it kind of follows that our bodies aren't designed by evolution for these things. You could also argue the same for anything more than a small amount of dairy, more so any pasteurised dairy: www.realmilk.com

[Smiler]

Lol! Good lad Waterboy, showing your depth again!

Yep, found the menshealth article amongst my searches, a bold stance by that magazine to go against the grain!

You've been finding the same as me...

Interestingly, while I don't believe in the Paleo diet (its a product) I do subscribe to the basis behind it in respect to evolution, grains etc...from my own studies wheat and gluten is really bad for me (water retention, lethargy etc) but I thrive on dairy...must have dairy farmers 10,000 years ago in my genes!

Your post is the reason why I've started this thread...to see if anyone else can find any link as I can't!

Isn't it a shame that everyone takes it as read that saturated fat is bad, and scoffs if you say otherwise, but when you look....there's no science behind it...

Smiler

[john joe]

You could also argue the same for anything more than a small amount of dairy, more so any pasteurised dairy: www.realmilk.com

nobody, but nobody, is taking my yoghurts away from me.

tell me more about this wheat being bad for you thing...

[brawler4life]

saturated fat = bad

unsaturated e.g penut butter = good

thats what ive been told

[brawler4life]

heres my backup

http://cholesterol.about.com/cs/faq/f/difference.htm

[OllieR]

Completely agree guys...... i truely believe that the majority of out dietry issues are sugar / insulin response related. Also if you adhere to a natural diet eliminating processed foods, saturated fat levels are just not an issue.

Has any one read Cholesterol Conspiracy ?

The industrial revolution was the catalyst the unbelievable decline in human health.....

I've got some articles on eskimo and american indian traditional diets but i can't find them at the minute, i'll post them up as soon as i do.

Waterboy, if the saturated fat issues were true, we'd both be dead by now, my diet is packed with the foods you mention.

I'm working on a nutrition for fighters booklet at the minute, should be finished in a couple of weeks..... i'll send you a pre release copywhenit is, if your'll let me know what you think.

ollie@fighterstrength.com

[Joat-Mon]

Eggs, Butter, Lard, Duck fat etc, good quality food. Several studies on the French reported on how much of this fat they ate but had mucher lower rates of CHD than the UK. They also smoked more & drank alcohol daily.

It's the low fat no nutrient chemical crap that you need to cut out.

[Plastikman]

Eggs, Butter, Lard, Duck fat etc, good quality food. Several studies on the French reported on how much of this fat they ate but had mucher lower rates of CHD than the UK. They also smoked more & drank alcohol daily.

It's the low fat no nutrient chemical crap that you need to cut out.

They call that the french paradox though, the rates of heart disease arent low because of their diet, they are low inspite of it. The gallons of red wine are probably a factor.

[Smiler]

Brawler, you've hit the nail on the head. You've found one of milliooooonsss of bits of advice like that. But where's the science that tells you that?

I can't find any!

Plastik - did you know that there are studies that show its the grapes that give the benefit, and not the other stuff in wine? You could be just as healthy, or even healthier, by just drinking grape juice...mind you...I like my wine...

John, although its a product so read it as such, it is based on what I've researched as being some sound principles...it'll give you the background...stick paleo diet into google...its a one size fits all and that is wrong, but the basics are true according to my research...you can also look at aborigines and alcohol for the issues caused by the genetic background...

Ollie the inuits are a great example...another is Okinawa and the pork they eat...

But can anyone find anything that actually does give the science behind the correlation?

Smiler

[Waterboy]

They call that the french paradox though, the rates of heart disease arent low because of their diet, they are low inspite of it. The gallons of red wine are probably a factor.

So nothing to do with the fact that the French have a borderline paranoia for the QUALITY of their ingredients and cooking? As Ollie R says, it's a food quality issue, less a food composition one.

[Waterboy]

Completely agree guys...... i truely believe that the majority of out dietry issues are sugar / insulin response related. Also if you adhere to a natural diet eliminating processed foods, saturated fat levels are just not an issue.

Has any one read Cholesterol Conspiracy ?

The industrial revolution was the catalyst the unbelievable decline in human health.....

I've got some articles on eskimo and american indian traditional diets but i can't find them at the minute, i'll post them up as soon as i do.

Waterboy, if the saturated fat issues were true, we'd both be dead by now, my diet is packed with the foods you mention.

I'm working on a nutrition for fighters booklet at the minute, should be finished in a couple of weeks..... i'll send you a pre release copywhenit is, if your'll let me know what you think.

ollie@fighterstrength.com

Sounds good mate - I'll email you in a moment.

[Plastikman]

Plastik - did you know that there are studies that show its the grapes that give the benefit, and not the other stuff in wine? You could be just as healthy, or even healthier, by just drinking grape juice...mind you...I like my wine...


All the info on that seems fairly ancedotal, but yeah the skins of red grapes are what contains tannin, antioxidents and resveratrol the fermentation doesnt increase the levels of any of those.

With regard to preventing heart attacks brought about by cholesterol though, wine must be of greater benefit then unfermented grape juice, given that alcohol has an anticoagulent(sp?) effect on the blood it must result in less pressure on the heart while pumping it around the body?

[Plastikman]

So nothing to do with the fact that the French have a borderline paranoia for the QUALITY of their ingredients and cooking? As Ollie R says, it's a food quality issue, less a food composition one.

Preaching to the choir here Tom.

[Waterboy]

All the info on that seems fairly ancedotal, but yeah the skins of red grapes are what contains tannin, antioxidents and resveratrol the fermentation doesnt increase the levels of any of those.

With regard to preventing heart attacks brought about by cholesterol though, wine must be of greater benefit then unfermented grape juice, given that alcohol has an anticoagulent(sp?) effect on the blood it must result in less pressure on the heart while pumping it around the body?

Makes sense - even one regular strength beer a day is supposed to have a lot of benefits.

I think red wine plays a part in the French overall health, but I don't think it can be the whole story (taking into account the other evidence out there).

Smiler - have you tried dark grapes as a detox? Most detox leave me drained, but just dark grapes for 24 hours leaves you with plenty of energy from the fructose, cleans you out ;), and you get the general benefits of a detox in taking the strain off your digestive system.

I always look more ripped after a grape detox as well :D

[Waterboy]

Preaching to the choir here Tom.

Sorry mate, re-reading my post that sounded a bit condescending! I haven't quite perfected the Smiler-style of polite and dignified debating. :D

[Plastikman]

I didn't take it as such.:cool:

And I agree with your point, even if you cane it with the butter and duck fat etc you are unlikely to develop heart problems, so long as you are cutting out trans fats. You will probabaly end up a fat bastard, but your heart should be fine.

[Waterboy]

I didn't take it as such.:cool:

And I agree with your point, even if you cane it with the butter and duck fat etc you are unlikely to develop heart problems, so long as you are cutting out trans fats. You will probabaly end up a fat bastard, but your heart should be fine.

Agreed - although I believe you would only actually end up fat if those calories took you over whatever your body's/lifestyle's daily limit was.

Chances are they would of course, as they are so calorific.

[Plastikman]

Agreed - although I believe you would only actually end up fat if those calories took you over whatever your body's/lifestyle's daily limit was.

Yeah, same as any food. A point I keep trying to explain this to the missus, but she's having none of it.

[SDR]

The only thing I can add to this is that I read "somewhere" (think it was on Tim Ferriss' blog) that regions of France where the population had diets with high saturated fats, had low rates of coronary heart disease due to the resveratrol found on/in the skin of Red Grapes/Wine.

Edit:

Ferriss' Blog

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/06/how-to-lose-20-lbs-of-fat-in-30-days-without-doing-any-exercise/


Rule #3: Don’t drink calories

Drink massive quantities of water and as much unsweetened iced tea, tea, diet sodas, coffee (without white cream), or other no-calorie/low-calorie beverages as you like. Do not drink milk, normal soft drinks, or fruit juice. I’m a wine fanatic and have at least one glass of wine each evening, which I believe actually aids sports recovery and fat-loss. Recent research into resveratrol supports this.

Edit 2

French Paradox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox


The French paradox is the observation that the French suffer a relatively low incidence of coronary heart disease, despite having a diet relatively rich in saturated fats.[1] The phenomenon was first noted by Irish physician Samuel Black in 1819. The term French paradox was coined by Dr. Serge Renaud, a scientist from Bordeaux University in France in 1992.[2]

When a description of this paradox was aired in the United States on 60 Minutes in 1991 with the proposal that red wine decreases the incidence of cardiac diseases, the consumption of red wine increased 44% and some wineries began lobbying for the right to label their products "health food".[3]

However, some health researchers question the validity of this paradox. Statistics collected by the WHO from 1990–2000 show that the incidence of heart disease in France may have been underestimated, and may in fact be similar to that of neighboring countries.[3] In 2008 it was found that high doses of resveratrol (a constituent of red wine) mimicked some of the benefits of caloric restriction (including reduced effects of aging) in a mice study.[4]

[Waterboy]

Yeah, same as any food. A point I keep trying to explain this to the missus, but she's having none of it.

lol, I feel your pain.

I'm always getting asked for nutrition advice from female friends, and they can't get their head round the fact that whilst eating fruit is a good thing, drinking a smoothie on TOP of their regular food/calorie intake is likely to lead to weight gain.

[jayman2606]

A really interesting post with some really good points made by all especially Waterboy and Smiler. But just to add to the them around this debate about the lack of hard evidence behind what is often presented to us as fact:


Makes sense - even one regular strength beer a day is supposed to have a lot of benefits.

I like a drink as much as the next person but the RDA for alchohol was actually "plucked out of the air":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article2697975.ece

Which with all the information in this post is making me wonder how much the experts advising society really know.

[Smiler]

Jayman, its scary isn't it!!

I learned a long time ago to question what I'm told...learn a little more...and only trust sources where the trust has been earned...

I got this going on Crossfit too...they're a little more scientific, but still coming up with stumbling blocks...even one fella who says its all out there...

Got a few studies to sift through that he's suggested, although its heavy going and I'm just back from training so I'll wait until tomorrow...but again the links look tenuous at best, and again don't discount carbohydrate and weight loss from the equation...

Smiler

[Waterboy]

A really interesting post with some really good points made by all especially Waterboy and Smiler. But just to add to the them around this debate about the lack of hard evidence behind what is often presented to us as fact:



I like a drink as much as the next person but the RDA for alchohol was actually "plucked out of the air":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article2697975.ece

Which with all the information in this post is making me wonder how much the experts advising society really know.

That can sit with the RDA's for vitamins that were drawn up in WWII as an absolute won't-die-of-scurvy-before-the-war-ends minimum then.

The 'one beer a day' recommendation isn't based on RDA/alcohol units, but then I can't remember what the study was, or how 'scientific' it was! I know it was biological/chemically founded, rather than just a statistical analysis, but it's true that there I've fallen foul of the "well, a STUDY showed so it must be true".

Somewhere on Tim Ferriss' blog (as well as the piece SDR posted) is some pretty decent evidence that one glass of red wine has decent health benefits. Two glasses are ok, any more and you're doing more harm than good, or so I gather.

Nice to have discourse on the forum with people who are open minded, yet healthily skeptical at the same time - it's rather rare!

[tom blackledge]

Interesting thread, just curious Tom/Gary have you heard of the metabolic typing diet?

[Waterboy]

Interesting thread, just curious Tom/Gary have you heard of the metabolic typing diet?

Did some cursory reading on the subject after reading your post. I guess we all have our own intolerances and body-quirks. Personally, garlic makes me fart something mental, and I only have to look at a potato to feel sleepy and sluggish.

I also think your body adapts to your diet to a certain degree - personally I've always had problems with carbs, and saw my GP a few times about my rice for lunch making me conk out whilst on the phone at work. Since going more down the protein and fat route I've found my intolerance for high-carb foods has worsened. Last time I ate a potato for lunch I slept for an hour in my car, woke up feeling hypoglycaemic and HAD to eat a whole big bar of chocolate!

I remember a few years ago cutting fat out of my diet almost totally for about 6 months as well, and the first time I ate something greasy it just slid straight through me without digesting.

Would be interested to hear with from someone with experience of metabolic typing; I'm suspicious of it being used by people as a 'well this is right for me' excuse for eating the wrong foods though.

[tom blackledge]

I've read a fair bit about it a while ago and thought some of the points were interesting but never really stuck to it.
Since jan or so ive been a diet that Dolce gave me mainly organic foods and its the best ive ever felt

[LewisJ]

Hi!

Not being one to take what I'm told without doing my own research to fully understand a subject, I'm researching saturated fats at the moment.

I'm not finding any studies that conclusively prove that saturated fat causes heart disease. Instead I'm find lots of bad or flawed science, incorrect or tenuous conclusions...and that most of the Government fat advice comes from a flawed USA study in 1953!

It seems to be as flawed as the MMR 'hoax'...

What I am finding is that there are lots of studies showing saturated fat is GOOD for you...

And also that there is alot more evidence to state that diets high in refined sugar and wheat have a far greater effect on heart disease...

What do you guys think?

Smiler

Hi Smiler,

To which study are you refering? Granted this isn't really my area, but I know a little bit. The best study that I know of related to saturated fat intake and CHD is one by Ancel Keys called "the seven countries study", published in the 80's I believe. The problem (as I'm sure you know) with pretty much any study looking at CHD/ CV disease risk is that they are either longitudinal/ cross-sectional in design, but this is purely because randomised controlled trials are pretty much impossible to do in this case, which is why I can't understand why more animal research has been done in the area.

The most convincing evidenceid from randomised studies looking at fat intakes and LDL concentrations/ fractions or endothelial/ vascular function.

It does appear there is some protective effect of polyunsaturated fatty acids, as found in the mediterranean and inuit (eskimo) diets, which means dispite their high (very high for the inuit) fat intake they have a reduced risk of CV disease. My opinion is that it's more about the ratio of fatty acids in the diet.

Just to add another example. There is no data what so ever saying that we should consume 2 litres of water a day, but it is quoted in an awful lot of nutrition/ physiology textbooks.

[Smiler]

Hi LewisJ!

The Ancel Keys was back in '53! Its the flawed report relied on by the US government in respect to saturated fat. It 'cherry picked' 6 countries out of information available from 22 countries, and drew tenuous conclusions from the results too. The other countries did not show any link between saturated fat and heart disease...

The problems I'm finding are that calorific intake, carbohydrates, conclusions that don't bear witness to the actual report, cherry picked statistics, and the biggest folly, wrongful reporting in the press and government releases.

Nice touch on the water...I haven't even started on that one...

Smiler

[DetoxGuru.com]

http://www.naturalnews.com/025857.html

^^ worth a read only a very short article.

[LewisJ]

Smiler,

Like I said. It's not something I've spent too much time looking into (other commitments), but I'd be interested to read the ifo you have.

From memory (a good few years) Keys' seven countries study was carried out from 1958-1970, and as the title of the study suggests it was conducted on 7 countries, not 6. Although even the data I've seen for that doesn't look particularly good, but that doesn't mean there isn't a link. I personally don't read too much into cross-sectional/ longitudinal data. Any conclusions drawn are fairly tenuous as there are so many confounding factors.

Like I said before it's worth looking into the LDL (lipoprotein) and endothelial function (vascular reactivity/ function) effests, particularly the post-prandial effects.

Here's one study (after a quick Pubmed search)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18494374?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

I'm not trying to argue there is a definative link.

[SawaPawa]

I've not done any reading on this, but would have thought saturated fats are linked with cholesterol? But then, I don't know whether there's much evidence on cholesterol causing problems either.

[widge milward]

really interesting thread i wish i knew more about nutrition tbh

[Tommo]

Widge all you need to know is full breakfasts, all you can eat chinkys & ice cream are not good for you ;)

[widge milward]

hahahaha you forgot the pizza mate ;) sorry forgot to ask you last night, what you weighing? :p

[Duchman]

So is eating cooked eggwhites (with out the yolk) good or bad?

[Waterboy]

So is eating cooked eggwhites (with out the yolk) good or bad?

Good, but unless you're worried about overall calorie intake you don't need to take the yolks out. Winner!

[Duchman]

Doesnt eggyork add to cholesterol level?

And yes im worried about calorie intake.. fish, eggwhites, some toast, loads of vegies, lentis.. :( my life

[Wiegieboard]

Oooooh shit! I'm fucked too in that case.

Anyway, I've been eating saturated fat for years and it's never given me a heart attack.


Widge all you need to know is full breakfasts, all you can eat chinkys & ice cream are not good for you ;)

[Waterboy]

Doesnt eggyork add to cholesterol level?

And yes im worried about calorie intake.. fish, eggwhites, some toast, loads of vegies, lentis.. :( my life

Eggyolk contains a type of cholesterol, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence/correlation that consumption of that will affect your own cholesterol levels.

If you're eating lots of vegetables and the right foods, your overall calorie intake should be higher than if you were eating a shit diet (according to John Beradi and the Grapplers Guide, and my own experience).

[Tommo]

hahahaha you forgot the pizza mate ;) sorry forgot to ask you last night, what you weighing? :p

Im 70kgs give or take 5kgs :D

[Smiler]

Good ol' eggs...got a bad rap from some bad science in the 80's and its stuck...the egg is the most nutritiously complete food you can eat...and the lecithin helps to counter the cholesterol, and its the good stuff...

Typing late, its brief, but eggs have always been good for you...

Still researching sat fats = heart disease...finding very few links...but lots that prove otherwise...

Smiler

[Duchman]

Eggyolk contains a type of cholesterol, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence/correlation that consumption of that will affect your own cholesterol levels.

If you're eating lots of vegetables and the right foods, your overall calorie intake should be higher than if you were eating a shit diet (according to John Beradi and the Grapplers Guide, and my own experience).

Realy? so lets say. i 2morrow say. HELL YEA I WANT TO BE WATERBOY.

what should i eat to cut down on the body fat?

[Waterboy]

Realy? so lets say. i 2morrow say. HELL YEA I WANT TO BE WATERBOY.

what should i eat to cut down on the body fat?

haha, I always drink shitloads of green tea, to speed up my metabolism, and wash out all the free-radicals from the (hopefully! :D ) high amount of protein synthesis.

Always have loads of dried fruit&nuts, avocadoes, ryvita, organic peanut butter, tinned mixed beans and veg in the house.

To get bf% down for a fight I'll alternate days of having chicken/fish and veg/beans after training (about 22:00), and next night just green veg and protein shake. Then a mammoth cheat day every 7/10 days, normally when starting to feel run down.

[Duchman]

I will try to do my best to be more like you.

On my way to be seculant and sexy.

Aaron Baxterzinho

On a serious note, thanks for the tips. im trying to cut out my belly as well.

[john joe]

all you can eat chinkys & ice cream are not good for you ;)

:(

There's as many letters in 'chinese' as there is in 'chinkys'.

[Xanthic]

:(

There's as many letters in 'chinese' as there is in 'chinkys'.

Oh yeah, so there is... There are also the same amount of letters in 'shock value' as 'xenophobic'!

[Duchman]

haha, I always drink shitloads of green tea, to speed up my metabolism, and wash out all the free-radicals from the (hopefully! :D ) high amount of protein synthesis.

Always have loads of dried fruit&nuts, avocadoes, ryvita, organic peanut butter, tinned mixed beans and veg in the house.

To get bf% down for a fight I'll alternate days of having chicken/fish and veg/beans after training (about 22:00), and next night just green veg and protein shake. Then a mammoth cheat day every 7/10 days, normally when starting to feel run down.

Been on a diet 3 days now.
longest i have done since 2005.

Baxterzinho

[jayman2606]

Oh yeah, so there is... There are also the same amount of letters in 'shock value' as 'xenophobic'!

Now that is what I call a razor sharp post in terms of wit.

[Waterboy]

Been on a diet 3 days now.
longest i have done since 2005.

Baxterzinho

There are no 'diets' grasshopper - only fundamental and lasting changes to your approach to nutrition.

No more meals - only 'feeding opportunities'. :D

Good luck mate, can't wait to see you kicking ass and taking names!

[Smiler]

Waterboy, with the exception of your last post, you're gonna need to read my book! (When it finally comes out, damn credit crunch putting a hold on things!!!)

Smiler

[MikeyL]

There are no 'diets' grasshopper - only fundamental and lasting changes to your approach to nutrition.

No more meals - only 'feeding opportunities'. :D

Good luck mate, can't wait to see you kicking ass and taking names!

top notch post.

*high five.

[Wiegieboard]

Oh yeah, so there is... There are also the same amount of letters in 'shock value' as 'xenophobic'!


I actually called my brother through to tell him about this post. It's the stuff of legend.

[Waterboy]

Waterboy, with the exception of your last post, you're gonna need to read my book! (When it finally comes out, damn credit crunch putting a hold on things!!!)

Smiler

Cool, look forward to it! <everything I've posted except my last post has been wrong? :confused: >

[Young Sexton]

If you're eating lots of vegetables and the right foods, your overall calorie intake should be higher than if you were eating a shit diet (according to John Beradi and the Grapplers Guide, and my own experience).

The Grapplers Guide Rocks!

In there it suggests that 30% of your diet should be from fats:
10% from Saturated
10% from Polyunsaturated
10% from Monounsaturated

I think this is what LewisJ was going on about with its about it being more about the percentage etc. It feels like its made a big difference in my diet.

[Smiler]

Hi Waterboy,

No, not at all!

Your advice has been very good...all I'm saying is that I've really done my research on the subject of fat loss and I think I can offer many tweaks to your advice that can really accelerate fat loss...whilst maintaining or increasing lean tissue...and hopefully lead you in some different directions to research too.

One thing that you really have to watch is the cheat day - this can really set you back! Think of fat as a living organism...you start to cut it back...it looks to live...so when you feed it then it gorges itself...your cheat days are really undoing your good work the rest of the time and setting yourself up for fat gain in the next few days...

Mind you, there's a difference between a cheat day, a cheat meal, or a cheat snack...

S'funny, with production of the book on hold due to the credit crunch, its given me the opportunity to make more adjustments to it, as my research and practice increases, tweaking what I have still further...you can always learn, and this thread proves it - I've started it as a 'hypothesis' and have learned from nearly every post...

Best regards,

Smiler

[tom blackledge]

So do you not reccomend a cheat meal Gary?

[Plastikman]

Also, what is your definition of a cheat meal?

[Smiler]

Hi Tom, Plastic-one!

It depends on your goal...and how quickly you want results...and how strong your will is!

For the next three weeks as I prepare for my next fight I'm going to be eating strict, no cheating, as I have a definate goal - 25th April, be on top form.

Think of your body like a Formula 1 car...you wouldn't put impurities in with the fuel if you want it to perform to its best - same with a body.

But...I couldn't live without chocolate, and I also like eating out. So I don't bust myself up if I have a chocolate bar, or eat a bit of wheat or gluten on a meal out...I just try to not make it a regular occurance. In this way I keep sane!

I think that if you deviate from your diet plan for a meal, or have a chocolate bar, yeah, it will hold you up slightly, but as long as you get straight back on your eating plan it shouldn't be too detrimental.

But binge eating and blow outs are a different story. If I have a blow out weekend it will take 5-7 days for my body to return to where it should be - and I know, as I keep strict food diaries, training diaries, and each day record my weight, body fat, water percentage. In this way I know exactly how my body is reacting to the energy I'm putting in and the energy going out.

Your body will start to rebound, and store fat, return to craving all the sugars and chemicals, it really can cause physiological and psychological problems in achieving your goal...

So the odd cheat meal or snack, yep, cheat days or weekends no...

In my opinion of course!

Hope this helps,

Smiler

[Duchman]

With all due respect gary, have you actully seen waterboy? seriously he could be like a pro bodybuilder. easy the best looking man on the uk mma scene.

[Waterboy]

With all due respect gary, have you actully seen waterboy? seriously he could be like a pro bodybuilder. easy the best looking man on the uk mma scene.

lol, I have actually sniggered like a kid at the back of class for about 5 mins after reading that.

Gary - sounds good, I'm genuinely impressed by your approach to 'knowledge' and refusal to accept things at face value. And I'd be inclined to agree with you on the cheat day from personal experience. My best results have come from having a 'cheat meal/afternoon' only once every 7/10 days, depending on where my weight, bodyfat, energy levels and willpower are at.

Grapplers Guide's John Beradi says you can break the rules 10% of the time. 'Breaking the rules' covers missing meals, overeating, undereating, eating the wrong types of food at the wrong time, as well as your common-or-garden 'cheating'. Assuming you eat 6 meals a day, you're basically only 'allowed' 4 cheats by his reckoning. I'm guessing you can expect at least one missed feeding opportunity, an afternoon of cheating is probably all you can yourself ("if you wanna be a record breakerrrrrrr").

Your F1 analogy is dead on as well, and goes hand in hand with a 'feeding opportunity' view of nutrition. I'm often asked "can I eat this, it's not that bad for me is it?". The answer is often "no, it's not that BAD, but it's not that GOOD either!". I'm sure people don't take that approach to dressing for a night on the town. "What about this dress? It's not THAT shit is it?" "No love, you'll just about get away with that." "Awesome."

I'm not really in my nutrition groove at the moment, as I freely admit that being out through injury leaves me a bit depressed and wanting KFC, but when I'm training for a fight, my cheating is normally an afternoon of a fairly decent pizza, ice cream, and maybe some carbs that I wouldn't normally have (fish and chips maybe). I agree that even your 'cheat' shouldn't be a load of McShite though - you wouldn't have an easy day of training that involved lifting some weights without stretching then running with really poor form for an hour. Give yourself a bit of a rest aye, but don't set yourself back in some sort of self-masochistic ritual.

I look forward to the book Gary - I have some friends in sports medicine careers who would make good proof readers as well when the time comes.

[Waterboy]

So do you not reccomend a cheat meal Gary?

http://pchomepros.net/1065_businessman_crying_after_his_computer_crashed .JPG

[Duchman]

dont be shy waterboy. my friends at the army told me, that you are the reasons somalies pirate boats next to the coast.

%^&^% %**^- suppostly means "where is the posh tom work poster"

true story

[tom blackledge]

http://pchomepros.net/1065_businessman_crying_after_his_computer_crashed .JPG

haha is there a hidden camera in here?