Can someone explain?

[Simon Hayes]

Why there is the huge difference between a Boxers wages and an MMA fighters wages?

I'm talking about World top 5 Boxer in comparison to U.F.C. Championship Contender.

I personally think Tito is right and the community should support his views-the reason he comes across as moaning is because he is on a one man crusade
for a fair payday and is not getting the support from his peers he should be.

Please can anyone logically tell me why Boxing is a bigger payday?

[DetoxGuru.com]

boxing has been round a lot longer and the pay has been going up and up ever since day one , this is my explanation , Im not saying its fair but thats why it is.

[Augustus Gloop]

this is a stupid question

the answer is because mma isnt boxing.
you may as well ask why tennis players get paid more than table tennis players
or why do footballers get paid more than rugby players
or why does the guy down the road gets paid more than me?

[mickholdaway]

Why there is the huge difference between a Boxers wages and an MMA fighters wages?

I'm talking about World top 5 Boxer in comparison to U.F.C. Championship Contender.

I personally think Tito is right and the community should support his views-the reason he comes across as moaning is because he is on a one man crusade
for a fair payday and is not getting the support from his peers he should be.

Please can anyone logically tell me why Boxing is a bigger payday?

Boxing has a good corporate following. Although my background is with the corporate market and has been for over 30 years i am finding it dificult to market MMA to this market.

I carried out a survey with my top 100 customers as to what their views were on Cage fighting. I had to use the words cage fighting as most of them had no idea what MMA was.
Some of the reasons given left no doubt that MMA or cage fighting had a very bad reputation with fights breaking out and abuse being hurled during fights. I have now put on two events and both had fights break out. One fight lost us the venue and the other was controlled but never the less whilst in progress at least a dozen poeple made their way quickly to the door and will probably never attend another event.

Other reasons were that in this day of equality many women would like to attend events but do not like the bad language that gets shouted across the venue. This is also apparent on forums where most contributors feel obligated to use foul language in most posts written. I liken it to the teenage kids that swear and smoke in front of adults as they believe we think they are big and that we are impressed. Someone should tell them that we laugh at them.

MMA is considered the fastest growing sport in the world at this time. As to if that is true or not i have no idea but what i do know is that if our clientèle were to increase by way of harnessing the corporate market it would certainly be more profitable, easier to market and thus producing greater revenues enabling better wages for fighters.

I dare say that some will say what a load of rubbish but i have to say that i made my money in the entertainment business and marketing to the corporate and the public sectors is something i have done for many years. Smell the coffee and clean up the sport.

There, not one swear word.

[simonmobiledisco]

This is how salary works.

The principle that you earn a share of the revenue you create.

Your boss will try to pay you the least you can before you getting upset and going to someone else who will pay you more. After all he wants to get paid the most he can for creating the entity you exercise your talent on.

When you are indispensible to the company achieving his goals you can negotiate a better salary, often even better than you are worth.

When when you are dispensible, you will get at most you value, if you cost more than your value, you will be dispensed.

unfotunately as much as people like to complain about other than earn more than them. On the above rules people typically deserve what they earn. QED

Queue the socialists.................

[RGS1]

Queue the socialists.................

Lining them up to shoot them?

[dunny]

i personally think that the top guys get paid fair enough anyway, i dont understand why they moan so much. of course MORE money would be nice, but i dont understand why they think they get picked on so much

[darthcrab]

I thought it was down to PPV buys. UFC biggest PPV buy was around 1 million I believe, Dana goes on about hitting that 1 Million buy Mark. Boxing gets around 3-4 million buys, world wide.

Plus I think I am right in saying, the UFC under card fighters, get paid a fuck load more than any of the undercard fighters on a ricky hatton card for eg.

I agree though, MMA fighters dont get paid enough at the highest level, all the PPV buys that the UFC get isnt because of Dana throwing the F-bomb about his fighters, its people tuning in to see fights..

[steve_langford]

MMA as a whole is seriously under payed but we need to give it time and the pay will rise.
I reckon in 10 years time the UFC champs will be matching the likes of Hatton and Mayweather (ok maybe not Mayweather lol)

[jayman2606]

I thought it was down to PPV buys. UFC biggest PPV buy was around 1 million I believe, Dana goes on about hitting that 1 Million buy Mark. Boxing gets around 3-4 million buys, world wide.

Plus I think I am right in saying, the UFC under card fighters, get paid a fuck load more than any of the undercard fighters on a ricky hatton card for eg.

I agree though, MMA fighters dont get paid enough at the highest level, all the PPV buys that the UFC get isnt because of Dana throwing the F-bomb about his fighters, its people tuning in to see fights..

This is a good discussion. Also remember that the UFC is a brand and people talk about UFC events now and then the fighters so it is very clever marketing as well meaning the brand is the most important selling point then come the fighters. I am not for one moment suggesting that the fighters don't deserve more.

I also agree with the promoter that talked about crowd trouble. For some reason in my experience it goes hand in hand with the event. I've been to only two MMA events (one cagewarriors and one UFC) but both have had some degree of crowd trouble (pissed up blokes thinking they are hard as nails after a few pints).

The image of the sport is not helped by this kind of thing. Having said that I've been to a local thai boxing event and there was trouble and also a big Warren boxing event and there was a bit of trouble. It's tied into masulinity and unforunately seems to bring out negative aspects of that.

[spartan4621]

this is a stupid question

the answer is because mma isnt boxing.
you may as well ask why tennis players get paid more than table tennis players
or why do footballers get paid more than rugby players
or why does the guy down the road gets paid more than me?


brilliant, couldnt have put it better myself.

[Rosi]

this is a stupid question

the answer is because mma isnt boxing.
you may as well ask why tennis players get paid more than table tennis players
or why do footballers get paid more than rugby players
or why does the guy down the road gets paid more than me?

Don't think it's a stupid question... In fact, I think any of those are valid questions to ask (though probably not ones that forum members are particularly interested in).

"The undercover economist" by Tim Harford is a great read if you want some insight into how things like this work, and pretty accessible and entertaining.

IMO, the short answer is the relative lack of competition between MMA promotions compared to boxing promotions. The UFC has established such maket dominance that other promotions struggle to compete for audience share - this is financially bad for both employees (fighters) and consumers (fans).

[Simon Hayes]

Augustus,I know who you are,ha ha stop trolling and get back on your combine harvester;)

Spartan,Do you not think your family (or future family) deserve to be financially secure from your endeavours as a 'Professional' sportsman,or is the 'Pro' tag just a set of rules you fight under as a hobbyist sportsman?
Can you live off the money you earn as 'Professional' or do you have to supplement your fighting income with other jobs.Do you deserve to live off fighting,where there is a risk of serious injury and a limited timespan before retirement,during which time a serious career has been ignored to follow your dreams.

The reason Sportsmen and Women should be properly financially renumerated is because they only have 15 years to earn the wages that
most of us have 45 years to earn.When a Pro Sportsman retires at 35 what job will he be qualified to do if he gave up education and/or a lifetime career
while pursuing his/her dreams to be a Sportsman.


MMA and Boxing are very very similar.So similar that many Boxing promoters are extremely worried about MMA's growing popularity and marketability.

These same promoters are seeing pound signs when they find out how much a high level MMA fighter will appear for.

I am not talking about U.K. shows (at the moment) i am talking about shows that make millions in PPV's and have enormous live attendances.


I speak as someone who believes MMA fighters are worth a lot more than they are being paid to entertain people.


Simon

[ashy51]

Boxers are quite simply over paid

[Rob T]

Does anyone here know exactly what the top MMA fighters are making?

Also, which fighters can you really compare? As much as there is an obvious element of trolling to Augustus' post, I think it's based in truth.

Who are the guys in MMA comparable to the top boxers? I'd say there are relatively few because the boxers we are talking about are the guys who are basically in championship or no.1 contender matches every fight. They're also guys who have long winning careers, not just a couple of fights and then thrown into the spotlight. There are other factors obviously; drawing ability, success of the show... but these would be the same for either sport.

So in MMA, I'd say;

Formerly; Chuck, Matt Hughes, Tito
Current; A.Silva, GSP, Hendo, Rich Franklin, Rampage, Penn.

Those are the guys who are similar in standing to the very top boxers I think?

Anyone have any idea how much any of them made last year/in a typical year?

[Plastikman]

So in MMA, I'd say;

Formerly; Chuck, Matt Hughes, Tito
Current; A.Silva, GSP, Hendo, Rich Franklin, Rampage, Penn.

Those are the guys who are similar in standing to the very top boxers I think?

Anyone have any idea how much any of them made last year/in a typical year?

Id throw Lesnars name in there, and based on last paycheck Id say Arlovski too maybe.

[Rob T]

I left Lesnar off because although he is a big draw and in big fights, he is still (relative to his status) vastly inexperienced.

Arlovski is a good call, although whether this drawing power will last outside UFC is yet to be seen I guess.

[Manik]

Boxing is still far more well known. Today at work there were a few people talking about the boxing on Saturday, which would never happen about MMA/UFC. Also there may be a gulf between what the headliners earn on paper but I'm sure I read somewhere that when it gets down to the undercard, the UFC pays way more than Boxing.

[Rob T]

How much revenue did Hatton/Pacman generate in total vs. an average UFC show? Anybody have any idea?

[jimmy_bullard]

this is a stupid question

the answer is because mma isnt boxing.
you may as well ask why tennis players get paid more than table tennis players
or why do footballers get paid more than rugby players
or why does the guy down the road gets paid more than me?

I think its relevant because because mma and boxing seem to have have a similar fanbase whereas the same can't be said about the comparisons you make there. In 2006 spread out across the whole year the UFC had more PPV buys than the HBO boxing did in the US. Personally I would opine that there are several reasons for the differences in the top earners in both sports;

1) In boxing there are larger differences (proportionally) between the top earners and the guys who are ranked say no. 5 in an unfashionable weight division with a boring fighting style so when you hear the figures De La Hoya and co earn it seems more dramatic.
2) MMA is a less established sport and is viewed by many as some kind of skill-less, primitive, carnal, bloodbath so the UFC has a harder time attracting sponsors as they probably don't want to be associated with it due to unpredictability of the product and a poor image for a company to be associated with. I don't mean sponsors of individual fighters but sponsors like Harley davidson sponsoring the ufc right now.
3) The UFC is trying to expand and spending a lot of money on marketing in new countries.
4) Boxing is already established and popular in most countries around the world
5) As Rosi said the UFC has monopolised the market although while I think Dana white and co. are far from benevolent business men if you follow the salaries released on mmaweekly since the UFC achieved this monopoly by buying out Pride the salaries have increased quite a bit which does coincide with mma becoming more and more popular. However, there isn't really that much evidence of the UFC adopting an our way or the highway attitude only really with Jon fitch and the videogame thing. Apparently though there are a lot of underhand backstage bonuses going around so its difficult to say what the top earners are actually making

[Gareth]

Boxing is still far more well known. Today at work there were a few people talking about the boxing on Saturday, which would never happen about MMA/UFC. Also there may be a gulf between what the headliners earn on paper but I'm sure I read somewhere that when it gets down to the undercard, the UFC pays way more than Boxing.


This is pretty much it, every person at my work today (all the women included) with the exception of the older guy there were talking about the Hatton fight whereas after the UFC I think I am the only person who even knew it happened! MMA as much as myself and like minded others love it is not as big a draw as boxing.
Also with reference to PPV revenue, the Hatton fight was £15 for just that whereas a UFC event is £10.99 to watch on setanta and seeing as that's for a months viewing the money will be split over a large variety of sports/organisations with the UFC getting a minimal amount compared to the likes of football.

At the moment it's due to simple economics MMA fighters can't command as much as Hatton/Pacquaio.

My 2p worth.

[Rosi]

This is pretty much it, every person at my work today (all the women included) with the exception of the older guy there were talking about the Hatton fight whereas after the UFC I think I am the only person who even knew it happened! MMA as much as myself and like minded others love it is not as big a draw as boxing.

I think that's not as true in the US than it is here.

When I was in California, I was surprised at the difference in profile MMA has over there. Most Americans seem to know what mixed martial arts is now. Even I got recognized by a few random people on the street after my fight :)

[Nak-Muay]

1. Boxing there are maybe 6 fighters who the fans follow. MMA there are fuck loads.

2. Boxing is much more as a popular sport

3. Boxing is tried and tested, they know what works

4. Boxing has grown over centuries, MMA has grown over decades

[Nak-Muay]

I think that's not as true in the US than it is here.

When I was in California, I was surprised at the difference in profile MMA has over there. Most Americans seem to know what mixed martial arts is now. Even I got recognized by a few random people on the street after my fight :)

Imagine the US responce to Hatton/Pacquiao though? Or even Mayweather/Pacquiao in a few months (December apparently)... I mean GSP/Penn was big, but that will be ridiculas.

UFC may attract guys from like entourage, etc... but boxing attracts David Beckham, Tom Jones, P.Diddy, Jay-Z, Jack Nicholson, Jeremy Piven, Denzel Washington, Mark Wahlberg, Cedric the Entertainer and Christian Bale...

Just an example of the attention... cause I guess a lot of it is TV / Sponcer deals?

[Gareth]

I think that's not as true in the US than it is here.

When I was in California, I was surprised at the difference in profile MMA has over there. Most Americans seem to know what mixed martial arts is now. Even I got recognized by a few random people on the street after my fight :)

But it's not just the States that pull in the figures on the PPV's take the boxing saturday for example, they had stadiums showing it in the Phillippines there isn't anywhere that offers that kind of coverage for MMA. Also California is only one state I would doubt MMA is as popular in other states.

[Truthseeker]

The media-advertising-TV axis in boxing has developed over a much longer period than MMA. It will take time for MMA promoters to get a foothold in these relationships and also for media executives etc..to understand properly the product that is being sold. Once that happens it can attract more sponsers, but even if that money does trickle down to some fighters at the top there will still be huge inequality between different levels - just as there is in boxing now.

[simonmobiledisco]

Just to add to my initial post.

Rosi pointed out for those interested in things like this to read Tim Harford. Great starting point.

The lack of competition should be looked at from another angle. scarcity of resource Since the orignal UFC in the west and Shooto/Pride and earlier in the East. MMA has not been a secret in the world for a long time. However only Dana White has been super successfully able to create a platform for these people to perform and reach such audiences in the West.

We have scores of talented fighters however only one tier one promotor (please don't argue this point, it really is a fact in the West. So the real scaracity of talent is in the promotion. So that is where is person in the mantle is duely rewarded. As proven the UFC continues to grow without Tito, would it do so without it's existing management?

The fighters of you ,will empaphise with the fighting of the world. However the discussion is about pay and therefore money, so fairness of distribution is truely about the generation of that money.