Diffence between BJJ, Jiu jitsu and Judo

[DaveSupTT]

Being new to MMA and BJJ, I got chatting with one of my mates who did Jiu jitsu years ago, and he was asking what the difference between BJJ, Judo and Jiu jitsu
is.
Being new to BJJ, and never having done any of the other two martial arts I wasn't sure.
I guess Judo is more focused on throws as appose to grappling?

Can someone explain the main differences for me.

Cheers

[SWM]

Being new to MMA and BJJ, I got chatting with one of my mates who did Jiu jitsu years ago, and he was asking what the difference between BJJ, Judo and Jiu jitsu
is.
Being new to BJJ, and never having done any of the other two martial arts I wasn't sure.
I guess Judo is more focused on throws as appose to grappling?

Can someone explain the main differences for me.

Cheers

BJJ - (almost) Only groundwork. Modern variation of judo invented by Gracie family. No Strikes.

Judo - Two bits, both grappling - Throws from standing and (ne waza) ground work. Some judoka are serious badasses on the ground, but most seem to specialise in throwing people.

(Traditional/Japanese) Ju Jitsu - Self defence art with mixture of all strikes throws etc. Lots of 'deadly' (lol) moves like eyepokes. JJJ is not usually a part of mma.

[Augustus Gloop]

(Traditional/Japanese) Ju Jitsu - Self defence art with mixture of all strikes throws etc. Lots of 'deadly' (lol) moves like eyepokes. JJJ is not usually a part of mma.
why "lol"? eye pokes work. just ask Al-Turk

[DaveSupTT]

Cheers for that! It clears it up nicely for me! :)

[BruceLeeMMAfighting.net]

Being new to MMA and BJJ, I got chatting with one of my mates who did Jiu jitsu years ago, and he was asking what the difference between BJJ, Judo and Jiu jitsu
is.
Being new to BJJ, and never having done any of the other two martial arts I wasn't sure.
I guess Judo is more focused on throws as appose to grappling?

Can someone explain the main differences for me.

Cheers

The easy answer is that Judo is throws, BJJ is ground, and Jiu Jitsu is Self defense against street fighting/being attacked.

The more complicated answer is that:

Judo is just a subset of Jiu Jitsu and was the style of Jiu Jitsu of Jigoro Kano. Judo Guys like Maeda were equally good on the ground and with throws as Maeda was at the Kodokan when the Fusen Ryu Jiu Jitsu school's style (who had a ground BJJ stlye) was added to Judo. Maeda went on to Brazil to teach the Gracie and started by teaching them ground work. I suppose if he had been with the Gracie for longer than 2 years he would have started teaching them more throws too. (the pre WWII style of teaching judo started with alot of newaza, ground training and sparring before moving to throws)

Independently, Yukio Tani of the ground Fusen Ryu Jiu Jitsu school moved to England around 1900 and formed the Budokwai in London with Ginchin Koizumi. It wasn't till much later that they decided to join Judo and the Kodokan when Kano visited them. So for the early years of the Budokwai they were teaching some style of JiuJitus (probably Fusen Ryu) and not judo. So Jiu Jitsu schools (other than Kodokan Judo) were spread throughout the country which is why you see people who have learned Jiu Jitsu (and not Judo or BJJ). It should be noted that the Fusen Ryu guys were good at throws too (probably better than BJJ guys) but just not as good as Kodokan Judo throws. *Yukio Tani was famous for travellling the English music halls and taking on all comers. He used mainly ground work to finish his opponents as that was the quickest way to finish under indoor conditions and against bigger opponents. Keep in mind that he had to finish 20-30 opponents a night. If it was outdoors on hard surfaces or pavement then he may have used more throws to finish opponents quickly.

*****

Judo up till the end of World War II had a fair balance between being expert on the ground and standing. Kimura is probably the prototype product of this era of Judo.

However after WWII, the American GHQ (General Head Quarters) banned all martial arts, and disbanded the Japanese Martial arts centers/academies like the DNBK Butokukwai and judo academies like the Kodokan. So for about 5 years, all the masters had to go underground to teach. GHQ banned all competition from schools (judo used to be compulsory) including foot races in public schools, as foot races were a form of competition and could lead to aggression and samurai like spirit. GHQ then allowed Judo/Kodokan to come back around 1950, but a less lethal version which didn't include as much groundwork and was more sport. When Judo became an Olympic sport in 1964, this furthered watered down Judo to Sport rather than a fighting Martial Art and this is what we have in the present day which is basically throws with limited time on the ground.

So because of the US GHQ martial arts ban Judo and JiuJitsu changed or disappeared in Japan, while being preserved in Brazil with the Gracies, in Russia with Sambo (which came from Judo), and in England and Europe through European Jiu Jitsu schools and Yukio Tani and Ginchin Koizumi's Butokwai in London. The height of the Judoka as a fighting machine was probably Pre World War II when prototypes like Kimura were developed who were of the highest level on the ground, with throws and learned striking, etc. Of course many of the most fit guys were killed during WWII, so along with the GHQ's martial arts ban, alot of things were lost after WWII.

So this is why:
Modern Sport Judo = Throws
BJJ = Ground
Jiu Jitsu = Street Self Defense Throws (but not as good as Judo) and Ground (but not many practitoners or participants)
Sambo = Throws and Ground (with empahsis on Leglocks, and armbars)
Pre WWII Judo = Throws and Ground

[Emmet J]

What do you mean BJJ has 'no strikes?' I thought we on this forum had firmly established and agreed that BJJ is a deadly striking art...

[Leigh]

Original BJJ was designed for vale tudo matches and involved closing the distance, getting the takedown, getting a position and beating your opponent up to get a submission, which would end the fight

Most BJJ schools in the States and UK are based on the competition rules. Judo has a similar history and originally included leg locks and some other techniques. I saw an oma plata in a 60s judo book (its still legal-ish). But most clubs now concentrate on the competition rules

As a martial artist, I think its a shame that these past techniques seem to get lost but as a competitor I also understand it

[Duchman]

The easy answer is that Judo is throws, BJJ is ground, and Jiu Jitsu is Self defense against street fighting/being attacked.

The more complicated answer is that:

Judo is just a subset of Jiu Jitsu and was the style of Jiu Jitsu of Jigoro Kano. Judo Guys like Maeda were equally good on the ground and with throws as Maeda was at the Kodokan when the Fusen Ryu Jiu Jitsu school's style (who had a ground BJJ stlye) was added to Judo. Maeda went on to Brazil to teach the Gracie and started by teaching them ground work. I suppose if he had been with the Gracie for longer than 2 years he would have started teaching them more throws too. (the pre WWII style of teaching judo started with alot of newaza, ground training and sparring before moving to throws)

Independently, Yukio Tani of the ground Fusen Ryu Jiu Jitsu school moved to England around 1900 and formed the Budokwai in London with Ginchin Koizumi. It wasn't till much later that they decided to join Judo and the Kodokan when Kano visited them. So for the early years of the Budokwai they were teaching some style of JiuJitus (probably Fusen Ryu) and not judo. So Jiu Jitsu schools (other than Kodokan Judo) were spread throughout the country which is why you see people who have learned Jiu Jitsu (and not Judo or BJJ). It should be noted that the Fusen Ryu guys were good at throws too (probably better than BJJ guys) but just not as good as Kodokan Judo throws. *Yukio Tani was famous for travellling the English music halls and taking on all comers. He used mainly ground work to finish his opponents as that was the quickest way to finish under indoor conditions and against bigger opponents. Keep in mind that he had to finish 20-30 opponents a night. If it was outdoors on hard surfaces or pavement then he may have used more throws to finish opponents quickly.

*****

Judo up till the end of World War II had a fair balance between being expert on the ground and standing. Kimura is probably the prototype product of this era of Judo.

However after WWII, the American GHQ (General Head Quarters) banned all martial arts, and disbanded the Japanese Martial arts centers/academies like the DNBK Butokukwai and judo academies like the Kodokan. So for about 5 years, all the masters had to go underground to teach. GHQ banned all competition from schools (judo used to be compulsory) including foot races in public schools, as foot races were a form of competition and could lead to aggression and samurai like spirit. GHQ then allowed Judo/Kodokan to come back around 1950, but a less lethal version which didn't include as much groundwork and was more sport. When Judo became an Olympic sport in 1964, this furthered watered down Judo to Sport rather than a fighting Martial Art and this is what we have in the present day which is basically throws with limited time on the ground.

So because of the US GHQ martial arts ban Judo and JiuJitsu changed or disappeared in Japan, while being preserved in Brazil with the Gracies, in Russia with Sambo (which came from Judo), and in England and Europe through European Jiu Jitsu schools and Yukio Tani and Ginchin Koizumi's Butokwai in London. The height of the Judoka as a fighting machine was probably Pre World War II when prototypes like Kimura were developed who were of the highest level on the ground, with throws and learned striking, etc. Of course many of the most fit guys were killed during WWII, so along with the GHQ's martial arts ban, alot of things were lost after WWII.

So this is why:
Modern Sport Judo = Throws
BJJ = Ground
Jiu Jitsu = Street Self Defense Throws (but not as good as Judo) and Ground (but not many practitoners or participants)
Sambo = Throws and Ground (with empahsis on Leglocks, and armbars)
Pre WWII Judo = Throws and Ground

The US army indeed had a ban for normal people. How ever kimura taught the US army judo. Also loads of judo legends like kimura, and hirano (europas kimura) died in the 90s...
The stongest old man, i have ever met, with a kesa katame from hell and a crazy grip. Was a direct student of hirano. yu-ai gave plenty guidence to judo in europe.. Russians actully changed judo by standing low, and doing a shit lot of pant grips :)

[TRIBULUS]

As a martial artist, I think its a shame that these past techniques seem to get lost but as a competitor I also understand it

I agree, the shame is that we end up with 50-50 battles at the mundials which bear very little relevance to self defence or the original purpose of Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

[TRIBULUS]

Nice post by Bruce Lee.

[Jogs D]

Original BJJ was designed for vale tudo matches and involved closing the distance, getting the takedown, getting a position and beating your opponent up to get a submission, which would end the fight

Most BJJ schools in the States and UK are based on the competition rules. Judo has a similar history and originally included leg locks and some other techniques. I saw an oma plata in a 60s judo book (its still legal-ish). But most clubs now concentrate on the competition rules

As a martial artist, I think its a shame that these past techniques seem to get lost but as a competitor I also understand it


Without a doubt the best description of BJJ I have seen in a long time.....

I also strongly feel that the Vale Tudo aspect of BJJ is dying as more and more BJJ clubs focus exclusively on sport, and neglecting the Vale Tudo aspect of BJJ....

[The Crazy88]

From a BJJ perspective (these days) what I remember most about doing 'classical' or ju-jitsu was the sheer number of standing wrist locks. Has anybody ever managed one of these in a competition, or against anybody who really didn't want to get wrist locked?

Also, most of the classical ju-jitsu instructors seemed to be insanely confident in the value of their art... And some of them wear skirts. True.

Judos' great though.

[Rob T]

Jacare fucked some guy up with a standing wrist lock in the first 20 seconds of a fight. It's on his instructional dvd (the fight, not as an instructional technique).

[wagon]

Aikido is the way forward.

[Manik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfjFg8rMdW8

Jacare walks away like a badass afterwards