MOBO's and BEA racist?

[Nimmy]

why is it that there are MOBO awards? isnt that a little rascist, im sure people wouldnt be happy if there was a MOWO awards?

Also whats with this statement from Jamie Foxx


Show host Jamie Foxx put the program in party mode from the start, dancing Jackson's famous moonwalk, singing his hit song "Beat It" and wearing a classic King of Pop costume -- red leather jacket and one white glove.

"We're going to celebrate this black man. He belongs to us, and we shared him with everybody else," Foxx told the crowd.

Again imagine if someone who was white said this.

Isnt this quite hypocritical?

Pisses me off because i know some people on here will jump to the defensive and say... whats your problem like?

Surely Foxx saying this isnt acceptable, thats segregation right there, gets me annoyed when i hear this shite. Either we are all in it together or not

[Rob T]

Yeah, I kind of agree with you mate. Just wish everyone could ignore the whole different skin colour issue.

[DanCrase]

I second that

[herringtonmma]

why is it that there are MOBO awards? isnt that a little rascist, im sure people wouldnt be happy if there was a MOWO awards?

Also whats with this statement from Jamie Foxx



Again imagine if someone who was white said this.

Isnt this quite hypocritical?

Pisses me off because i know some people on here will jump to the defensive and say... whats your problem like?

Surely Foxx saying this isnt acceptable, thats segregation right there, gets me annoyed when i hear this shite. Either we are all in it together or not

Yeah I noticed this as well and thought what if it was the other way round? There would be hell to pay.

[Yak]

agree, most sensible educated people dont really give a toss what colour someone is.... i know i dont...and take the piss without prejudice of all of my mates (who cover a huge spectrum of races/religions etc etc...)

as a side not tho a ridiculous comment as MJ spend his rather bizarre life doing his best to alter his look/skin colour etc etc...

[tinerrz]

A few years ago i lived with a black dude who i got on real well with but one thing that pissed me off was he used to frequent a chatroom called "black chat" - how is it not racist and how he couldn't see the racism in it is beyond me - he claimed it was just people from the same culture having somewhere to chat...but he couldn't understand why excluding "others" was wrong.

[Rob T]

Unfortunately it is just true that for the majority of the history of civilised society in the west, white people have done a great injustice to non-whites.

What we see now is just the backlash, but that doesn't make it ok imo. Nor does it help people ignore skin colour.

The whole idea of race/ethnicity/colour is ridiculous and humanity would be much better off without it. No one cares about eye or hair colour... well, except gingers, they're a bit weird.

[Leigh]

Of course they are racist. By definition, you cannot enter if you are the wrong race. But is that a problem? If I run a club and say I don't want tall people to join, that's my choice. People may not agree with my choice, but too bad, it's my club

Now, if I say tall people smell or if I go and attack a tall person, that's a different kettle of fish

[JeffMcFluffy]

Let's all celebrate this black man

http://www.gossipcheck.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/michael-jackson-neverland.jpg

[DanCrase]

Of course they are racist. By definition, you cannot enter if you are the wrong race. But is that a problem? If I run a club and say I don't want tall people to join, that's my choice. People may not agree with my choice, but too bad, it's my club

Now, if I say tall people smell or if I go and attack a tall person, that's a different kettle of fish

That sounds like a good club to me; I'm 5'5"!

[Nimmy]

Of course they are racist. By definition, you cannot enter if you are the wrong race. But is that a problem? If I run a club and say I don't want tall people to join, that's my choice. People may not agree with my choice, but too bad, it's my club

Now, if I say tall people smell or if I go and attack a tall person, that's a different kettle of fish

thats discrimination then isnt it?

what if RBS or The Government said i dont want any black people to join our company, its not right but hey its my company and il decide who i want and who i dont want?

[Nimmy]

No one cares about eye or hair colour... well, except gingers, they're a bit weird.


i knew i didnt like you for some reason :p

[Rob T]

i knew i didnt like you for some reason :p

Haha, at least you realised it was a joke! :)

The South Park episode about Somalian pirates made me do it, lol.

[ferret]

They are about as racist as Velasquez's tattoo! Saw a post on sherdog about this or something similar the other day it kicked off big time on there. Think somone asked what would dana do if someone decided to have a white pride tattoo instead of a brown pride one. Suppose it depends on which era Dana was such a big Michael Jackson fan;)

[Flashing Blade]

thats discrimination then isnt it?

what if RBS or The Government said i dont want any black people to join our company, its not right but hey its my company and il decide who i want and who i dont want?

The MOBOs don't discriminate. Amy Winehouse,Justin Timberlake and Punjabi MC have won MOBOs and Tim Westwood is best DJ just about every year.

It's the genre music that is of black origin- not the artists. They were set up because the big awards ceremonies didn't take dance and hip hop seriously and were biased to guitar bands.

Having said that- just about all modern rock and pop can trace its lineage back to the blues so it's all music of black origin.

[Nimmy]

They are about as racist as Velasquez's tattoo! Saw a post on sherdog about this or something similar the other day it kicked off big time on there. Think somone asked what would dana do if someone decided to have a white pride tattoo instead of a brown pride one. Suppose it depends on which era Dana was such a big Michael Jackson fan;)


On his tattoo: “I got my tattoo because I wanted people to know I was Mexican and that I was doing good things with my life. I’m really proud of what I went through to get where I am. Growing up, there wasn’t anyone in the media [who was of Mexican decent] who I could look up to. There wasn’t anyone who looked like me [in the media], so I never thought I would do something good. I figured I would just go out and join the regular work force. I never thought I’d make a career out of wrestling or fighting. I just wanted everyone to say I was just like them and that I was good at what I did.”

http://www.mmascoops.com/news.php?page=/246525633

[Rob T]

To be fair, I don't think the MOBOs are too bad, it's just black origin, not black artists. I am pretty sure white people have won MOBOs?

Still don't see the need to differentiate between music depending on the skin colour of the person who first played it/popularised it (not sure what criteria they use?) though.

[Nimmy]

The MOBOs don't discriminate. Amy Winehouse,Justin Timberlake and Punjabi MC have won MOBOs and Tim Westwood is best DJ just about every year.

It's the genre music that is of black origin- not the artists. They were set up because the big awards ceremonies didn't take dance and hip hop seriously and were biased to guitar bands.

Having said that- just about all modern rock and pop can trace its lineage back to the blues so it's all music of black origin.

half the music at the MTV awards is black, so thats not really an excuse now is it. fair enough if they had these awards when black musicians were getting no recognition thats fine but how can you have an integrated society when they are categorising music by race?

[Nimmy]

Haha, at least you realised it was a joke! :)

The South Park episode about Somalian pirates made me do it, lol.

funny you should say it man i had the same kindov chat with a gay dude at my work, it was ready to shout how "how gay is this song" and then i seen him sitting across from me, so i asked him if he would be offended if i slagged gay people etc... his response was " if your slagging me your treating me the same as everyone else, which is better than when people exclude me", i thought this was a cool answer

[Leigh]

thats discrimination then isnt it?

what if RBS or The Government said i dont want any black people to join our company, its not right but hey its my company and il decide who i want and who i dont want?

Correct, that's discrimination. It is not illegal in general, only in particular circumstances, such as employment, which addresses your second point

If I decide I don't want men to play with my balls, is that discrimination?

[Nimmy]

Correct, that's discrimination. It is not illegal in general, only in particular circumstances, such as employment, which addresses your second point

If I decide I don't want men to play with my balls, is that discrimination?

thats personal tho Leigh, you cant hold a televised tv broadcast of men feeling your balls.

your first point regarding employment, yes of course however the example i gave was just to show the extend and the reason we have employment law is to stop this from happening. If we never had a law we could have all white comapnies.

Discrimination might not be illegal however when you have celebrities giving their backing to it it adds crediblility. So since Michael Jackson was only shared with us and as jamie Foxx put it they gave him to us?

i suppose all the white people who bought his records and contributed to his success dont count? all that promotion, money and fame given to jackson by people together through Music not race all counts for nothing because segments of the black community now decide to claim jackson back as "one of their own" when many disowned him for changing his colour calling him uncle tom etc... but hey maybe im generalising and its only Jamie Foxx, but what do you know he is on a televised awards show to millions of different races of people plugging it that way?

[Xanthic]

The MOBOs don't discriminate. Amy Winehouse,Justin Timberlake and Punjabi MC have won MOBOs and Tim Westwood is best DJ just about every year.

It's the genre music that is of black origin- not the artists. They were set up because the big awards ceremonies didn't take dance and hip hop seriously and were biased to guitar bands.

Having said that- just about all modern rock and pop can trace its lineage back to the blues so it's all music of black origin.

:cool:



as a side not tho a ridiculous comment as MJ spend his rather bizarre life doing his best to alter his look/skin colour etc etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

[Dave Hirst]

That comment from Foxx pissed me off a bit too.

[tinerrz]

:cool:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

But Vitiligo only affects your skin in patches - wacko WANTED to be white.

[UltimatePunch]

An italian invented the piano ,an italian invented the guitar i think but was perfected in spain and a white american invented the synthesizer and another invented the turntable.These are dominant in 'black' music. So it shoulc be Music by black people using italian,spanish and white instruments. I dont think thats catchy tho MBBPUISWI Awards

[iandean]

thats personal tho Leigh, you cant hold a televised tv broadcast of men feeling your balls.


...well if you picked the right channel, you possibly could

[Seca Sec]

wako jacko was a Wonkey (a wannabe honkey)

[Bateman]

thats discrimination then isnt it?

what if RBS or The Government said i dont want any black people to join our company, its not right but hey its my company and il decide who i want and who i dont want?

i worked for RBS , i only ever remember 1 black woman, Susan from Romford. More cockney than chaz and dave

[londonpride]

i agree it is a load of bollox and completely racist. still, only the white man can be racist :rolleyes:

there's plenty of examples in everyday life, it's rank hypocricy.
most of us ignore the colour of a persons skin and treat them as a regular human being, unfortunately the far left pc brigade have made such an effort to "incorporate" black people into our culture it's resulted in positive discrimination and yet more racism.

the 'hate crime' southpark episode sums this up beautifully, the speech by kyle is quality and sums up the situation.

[Leigh]

thats personal tho Leigh, you cant hold a televised tv broadcast of men feeling your balls.

your first point regarding employment, yes of course however the example i gave was just to show the extend and the reason we have employment law is to stop this from happening. If we never had a law we could have all white comapnies.

Discrimination might not be illegal however when you have celebrities giving their backing to it it adds crediblility. So since Michael Jackson was only shared with us and as jamie Foxx put it they gave him to us?

i suppose all the white people who bought his records and contributed to his success dont count? all that promotion, money and fame given to jackson by people together through Music not race all counts for nothing because segments of the black community now decide to claim jackson back as "one of their own" when many disowned him for changing his colour calling him uncle tom etc... but hey maybe im generalising and its only Jamie Foxx, but what do you know he is on a televised awards show to millions of different races of people plugging it that way?

I'm sorry but I can't understand your grammar and I'm not sure what you're asking me. If you are asking me about Michael Jackson's music, I'm a fan

[londonpride]

The MOBOs don't discriminate. Amy Winehouse,Justin Timberlake and Punjabi MC have won MOBOs and Tim Westwood is best DJ just about every year.

It's the genre music that is of black origin- not the artists. They were set up because the big awards ceremonies didn't take dance and hip hop seriously and were biased to guitar bands.

Having said that- just about all modern rock and pop can trace its lineage back to the blues so it's all music of black origin.

so it's perfectly alright to have awards focused on black music?

[Leigh]

it's rank hypocricy

You could legally host a celebration for white music artists if you wanted to

My issue with these segregations isn't that it discriminates against anyone but more that it insults the winners. I mean, is Miss Black America too ugly to win the normal Miss America?

[Nimmy]

I'm sorry but I can't understand your grammar and I'm not sure what you're asking me. If you are asking me about Michael Jackson's music, I'm a fan

:D come on Leigh you can do better than that

[iandean]

i worked for RBS , i only ever remember 1 black woman, Susan from Romford. More cockney than chaz and dave

Typical of someone from Kent to start on someone from essex.

Leave your discrimination at the door

[Leigh]

:D come on Leigh you can do better than that

Better than what? Ask me a specific question and I'll answer but please make it legible.

[TheUnfitOne]

Where's our resident forum Neo nazi White Supremacist 'Detoxguru' when you need him ?

[Flashing Blade]

so it's perfectly alright to have awards focused on black music?

The Kerrang awards never have any nominations for black artists and Lemmy, a man who often wears nazi regalia, has won their living legend award. It is pretty much an awards ceremony for white music.

I don't have any problem with that, same as I don't have a problem with the MOBOs or the Asian Music Awards.

[DetoxGuru.com]

my take on the whole black awards business is that they are a waste of time , as leigh says dont they win anything in the normal music awards??

[DanCrase]

The Kerrang awards never have any nominations for black artists and Lemmy, a man who often wears nazi regalia, has won their living legend award. It is pretty much an awards ceremony for white music.

I don't have any problem with that, same as I don't have a problem with the MOBOs or the Asian Music Awards.

Lemmy wears the iron cross, a symbol adopted by Germany (and formerly Prussia) and was designed in 1913; about 20 years before the rise of the Nazi movement; please don't group Germany and the Nazis together; Germany is merely the country where the Nazi party was founded.

Lemmy also dated a black chick for many years until she died of an overdose.

[Nimmy]

The Kerrang awards never have any nominations for black artists and Lemmy, a man who often wears nazi regalia, has won their living legend award. It is pretty much an awards ceremony for white music.

I don't have any problem with that, same as I don't have a problem with the MOBOs or the Asian Music Awards.

the kerrang awards are for rock music and not white music. it just so happens there arnt black rock starts. besides that its not about who wins its the way its billed as black music as opposed to music. i dont think anyone from kerrang has ever said its only white music

[Rob T]

The Kerrang awards fucking suck anyway, who cares?

[Kaan Sencer]

its ok when black people are rascist it doesnt count,

[iandean]

The urban music awards are fun though, right?

[Daddy D]

I agree with most of above posts, (except for Flashing Blade using the word Lemmy and Nazi in the same sentance), MOBO awards have always seemed a bit wrong to me, the same as "the Black Police officers association", and similar groups. Kerrang awards are in no way a ceromony for white music, Id go so far as to say thats utter shit. Remember Jimmi Hendrix, Lenny Kravitz, Corey Glover from Living colour, The whole of Sepultura or Soulfly (Brazilian, not sure what colour bracket they slot into), Ice T with Body count(all black), I could go on. Its alternate music, race does not come into it, It makes no differance if its a black hand holding the drum sticks or a white hand, and thats the point, calling the Awards MOBO brings race into it, which in my opinion is a bad thing.

[Flashing Blade]

Lemmy is a keen collector of Nazi memorabillia and is quite open about it.

Exhibit A


http://assets.thequietus.com/images/articles/148/lemmy_s_naughty_hat_1215779807_crop_326x245.jpg

[Luke]

It makes no differance if its a black hand holding the drum sticks or a white hand, and thats the point, calling the Awards MOBO brings race into it, which in my opinion is a bad thing.

Ill just leave this here

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80676356/

[david5]

Of course they are racist. By definition, you cannot enter if you are the wrong race. But is that a problem? If I run a club and say I don't want tall people to join, that's my choice. People may not agree with my choice, but too bad, it's my club

Now, if I say tall people smell or if I go and attack a tall person, that's a different kettle of fish

what have we ever done to you leigh? :( i thought we were friends :(

[Tommo]

wako jacko was a Wonkey (a wannabe honkey)


Some good serious points in this thread but this did make me lol :D

[Nimmy]

This is Michael Richards better known as Kramer from tv's Seinfeld series.

This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act.



I'm proud To Be White
Someone finally said it.
How many are actually paying attention to this ?
There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,
Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
And then there are just Americans.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
You Call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,'
'Whitey,' 'Caveman' ... and that's OK.
But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head,
Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner , Gook, or Chink ...
You call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you,
so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live ?

You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month , we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance'
OUR lives we'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce,
and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.
Wonder who pays for that ?

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant,
but any color can be in the Miss America pageant. If we had a college
fund that only gave white students scholarships you know we'd be
racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .
Yet if there were 'White colleges' THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your
race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights,
you would call us racists. You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and
orange, and you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us.

But , when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or
beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a
threat to society, you call him a racist.
I am proud.
But you call me a racist.
Why is it that only whites can be racists ?

[ReD_mIst]

There have been some interesting comments made about MJ's transformation into a white guy. ON Talk Sport I heard how a black guy had been a big fan of MJ's until he 'turned his back on his black roots and became white".... surely he can see that's racist?

Same music, same guy... different colour. The only reason he doesn't like him now (then) is because he isn't black!?!

Michael Richards comments are so spot on.

Being proud of your country or race is not something to be embarassed about. I'm proud to be English.. yes, English, not British. Funny how it's applauded when someone is proud to be Welsh or Scottish, but being proud to be English is considered racist.

[londonpride]

There have been some interesting comments made about MJ's transformation into a white guy. ON Talk Sport I heard how a black guy had been a big fan of MJ's until he 'turned his back on his black roots and became white".... surely he can see that's racist?

Same music, same guy... different colour. The only reason he doesn't like him now (then) is because he isn't black!?!

Michael Richards comments are so spot on.

Being proud of your country or race is not something to be embarassed about. I'm proud to be English.. yes, English, not British. Funny how it's applauded when someone is proud to be Welsh or Scottish, but being proud to be English is considered racist.

spot on.

has anyone else noticed that when you fill in forms on the internet and it asks you your nationality you can never answer "English" it is always "british"
since when has british been an actually nationality? i wasn't born in 4 different nations, was I.

i've also noticed in athletics the other day, the english runner when announced had a union jack next to their name, yet in the same race their was a scottish runner who had the cross of st andrew, then in the next race was a welsh women with the welsh flag to her name. why is it only the ENGLISH who are forced to use the union jack? why are the other british nations deemed as seperate and allowed their own countries flags at sporting events? (obviously that's different for the olympics).

im white and im english, and i'm fucking proud. that doesn't mean i've got a problem with any other race, but what is so wrong with saying im white, english and proud?
the pc brigade have alot to answer for.

as billy connolly said, the only people you can take the piss out of without getting in trouble is white athiests:rolleyes:

[Yak]

the majority of these groups etc where all founded to fight oppression which I am all for - but come on... equality these days is actually weighed in favour of so called minorities....which surely is against everything that racial equality stands for

the common arguement used tends to go back to the hideous days of slavery - which have been stamped out (rightly so) in the 'white' nations yet exist in asia/africa - where its local people abusing their own countrymen
the biggest abusers/racialkillers of the past years have all been one 'ethnic' group killing another.... just look at the daily bombings in irag/afghan
or the Rwanda genocide- one black group slaughtering another
look at sudan/darfur....
...the civil unrest in Nigeria



so this positive discrimination is totally unfair and unfounded in todays society I feel. And surely should be stamped out with the same vigour.
In our multicultural society why should skin colour even be brought into it.
If you wish to be proud of your heritage then it has to be an even playing field

[Rob T]

has anyone else noticed that when you fill in forms on the internet and it asks you your nationality you can never answer "English" it is always "british"
since when has british been an actually nationality? i wasn't born in 4 different nations, was I.

Do you realise this is a bit silly and hypocritical? You weren't born in all of the parts of England just as much as you weren't born in all he parts of Britain. It's all arbitarily chosen lines at some point.

I'm proud to be human.



The Michael Richards bit above is good but I feel the "You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us." is a bit dodgy. Changes the use of "You" and "Us" throughout, for the worse, imo.

[Nimmy]

There have been some interesting comments made about MJ's transformation into a white guy. ON Talk Sport I heard how a black guy had been a big fan of MJ's until he 'turned his back on his black roots and became white".... surely he can see that's racist?

Same music, same guy... different colour. The only reason he doesn't like him now (then) is because he isn't black!?!

Michael Richards comments are so spot on.

Being proud of your country or race is not something to be embarassed about. I'm proud to be English.. yes, English, not British. Funny how it's applauded when someone is proud to be Welsh or Scottish, but being proud to be English is considered racist.

its funny because we see it the other way round in Scotland. Im glad your proud to be english thats cool, im proud to be scottish, however i think Londonprides comments about flags etc... is the other way round. i.e. Andy Murray is seldom refered to as scottish, chris hoy is never scottish (only in scotland) these athletes are referred to as british.

i think you should be proud to be who you are, sing your anthem and stand up for your identity, its a sad day when you have to bow down from the pressures of being yourself.

[londonpride]

its funny because we see it the other way round in Scotland. Im glad your proud to be english thats cool, im proud to be scottish, however i think Londonprides comments about flags etc... is the other way round. i.e. Andy Murray is seldom refered to as scottish, chris hoy is never scottish (only in scotland) these athletes are referred to as british.

i think you should be proud to be who you are, sing your anthem and stand up for your identity, its a sad day when you have to bow down from the pressures of being yourself.

i think the hoy/murray thing comes from the media being wholly english and promoting those good sportsmen as such. i dont think them being scottish is lost on most sports fans. personally i find it sickening the way the english media and many english sports fans jump on the murray bandwagon.
the fellas said several times that he isn't british, he is scottish. he's said he hates england and even wore a uruaguay tshirt when england played them in the last world cup. he's more than welcome to do that, he is scottish afterall, it's irritating how sky and such still keep licking his arse:rolleyes:

[londonpride]

the majority of these groups etc where all founded to fight oppression which I am all for - but come on... equality these days is actually weighed in favour of so called minorities....which surely is against everything that racial equality stands for

the common arguement used tends to go back to the hideous days of slavery - which have been stamped out (rightly so) in the 'white' nations yet exist in asia/africa - where its local people abusing their own countrymen
the biggest abusers/racialkillers of the past years have all been one 'ethnic' group killing another.... just look at the daily bombings in irag/afghan
or the Rwanda genocide- one black group slaughtering another
look at sudan/darfur....
...the civil unrest in Nigeria



so this positive discrimination is totally unfair and unfounded in todays society I feel. And surely should be stamped out with the same vigour.
In our multicultural society why should skin colour even be brought into it.
If you wish to be proud of your heritage then it has to be an even playing field

good post.

notice the likes of the south african cricket team still have the racist quota system. curious that the ICC have never acted on that.

[Nimmy]

i think the hoy/murray thing comes from the media being wholly english and promoting those good sportsmen as such. i dont think them being scottish is lost on most sports fans. personally i find it sickening the way the english media and many english sports fans jump on the murray bandwagon.
the fellas said several times that he isn't british, he is scottish. he's said he hates england and even wore a uruaguay tshirt when england played them in the last world cup. he's more than welcome to do that, he is scottish afterall, it's irritating how sky and such still keep licking his arse:rolleyes:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/early-doors/article/179243/

[herringtonmma]

the Michael Richards speech was spot on

[daspecimen]

london pride it's not true that only white people can be racist. Maybe that was said in jest/sarcasm but i'm not sure. Abu Hamza is in jail for inciting racial hatred and if u look hard enough there are loads of stories, mainly of asian males being charged/arrested for it.

i work for a company that is always working to increase figures in underpresented areas of the work force. here, the two issues are the lack of jews and the lack of Black and Ethnic Minorities (BME). I personally refuse to go on any BME workshops because I fail to see why any special work should be done to fast track me based on my colour or ethnic origin. i'd like to think i'd be offered jobs on the basis of my skills and abilities and not because of who my parents are.

i don't see the issue with the mobo's myself.....tbh, even though i listen to "urban" music the ceremony holds no significance for me and has been awards have been on by artists of all colours and creeds. it was set up originally in the early 90's as a small underground ceremony that took off when those styles of music began to gain popularity. i don't doubt that there are ceremonies out there will equally/more offensive names that celebrate folk music or bhangra music....... just because they aren't in the public eye they aren't causing so many issues.

i don't see an issue in being proud of your heritage, race or nationality. as aaron said, i consider myself english although by law i'm a british citizen. yet despite that, i can't join the British National Party because I'm black.

With MJ i don't see why such an issue is being made of his skin colour. Its not natural, no different to dying your hair. My dad is lighter in tone that I am, but he's still black.

[daspecimen]

btw, jamie foxx for the most part is just a cock. a pretty funny one at times, but a cock nonetheless.

[Yak]

good point... the whole being proud of being say english or british is way beyond skin colour.... as our society isnt a 'white' only one... such as the notion by gutter press that its just the 'immigrants' bleeding the system

when its clear the white 'trash' aka 'chavs' are more than happy to suck money from the system....

and totally agree. why so fussed about what colour someones skin is ...

[londonpride]

london pride it's not true that only white people can be racist. Maybe that was said in jest/sarcasm but i'm not sure. Abu Hamza is in jail for inciting racial hatred and if u look hard enough there are loads of stories, mainly of asian males being charged/arrested for it.

i work for a company that is always working to increase figures in underpresented areas of the work force. here, the two issues are the lack of jews and the lack of Black and Ethnic Minorities (BME). I personally refuse to go on any BME workshops because I fail to see why any special work should be done to fast track me based on my colour or ethnic origin. i'd like to think i'd be offered jobs on the basis of my skills and abilities and not because of who my parents are.

.

i think that is the issue. why are schemes put into place to ensure increased representation in the workforce of a certain race or religion?
that is racist.
why are certain people given more of a leg up because of their race? why are the government keeping statistics on the number of each particular race within an industry and then attempting to increase the level of minorities?
focusing on any individual race and making decisions based on it IS RACIST, be it positive discrimination or not.
like when they offered minority groups FREE training to complete the 'knowledge' to become a black cab driver because "not enough minorities are driving the cabs". why the fuck should it matter?
do these pc do gooders not realise how racist this is? what happened to treating all humans as equals?
the government will never stop racism whilst they continue themselves to discriminate and seperate based on race.
how are we supposed to ignore the colour of someones skin when the government themselves are creating racially motivated schemes which basically seperates and discriminates based on race, they are basically saying "you're different", which is something i thought we had gotten beyond.
the pc, far left having taken it to the complete other extreme. it's no longer "you're different, i hate you", it's now "you're different, we'll help you get ahead in life". positive discrimination is still racist and insulting.
we're all humans and we're supposed to live in a modern society which doesn't focus on the colour of ones skin. so why does the pc brigade constantly come up with schemes to aid non whites?
surely selection, training etc should be focused on the human being as an individual, NOT because he/she is of a certain race.

it's all completely ubsurd left wing, pc bullshit.

[daspecimen]

i agree but thats the system, not individuals who benefit from it in most cases.

[daspecimen]

by the same token, surely this "british jobs for british workers" lark everyone is on about is just as bad?

[londonpride]

good point... the whole being proud of being say english or british is way beyond skin colour.... as our society isnt a 'white' only one... such as the notion by gutter press that its just the 'immigrants' bleeding the system

when its clear the white 'trash' aka 'chavs' are more than happy to suck money from the system....

and totally agree. why so fussed about what colour someones skin is ...

that's the point. none of us care about the colour of someones skin. we all intermix happily as human beings. yet the government, authorities etc constantly create schemes to aid people of certain race and religion. WHY?
how can they expect to rid racism when they are constantly still seperating us based on our colour?

also, noone here has denied there's not plenty of white scum in the world.

and for the record, when i said english and proud i acknowledge english doesn't just mean white, plenty of very proud englishmen who are of a different race.

[londonpride]

by the same token, surely this "british jobs for british workers" lark everyone is on about is just as bad?

why is it?
a british organisation, in britain, looking to create jobs for british people?
it doesn't discriminate against race.

[Rob T]

by the same token, surely this "british jobs for british workers" lark everyone is on about is just as bad?

I agree, I hate that stuff just as much. Best person should get the job, as long as companies aren't taking advantage by paying a non-British worker less.

[Rob T]

why is it?
a british organisation, in britain, looking to create jobs for british people?
it doesn't discriminate against race.

Why do you think it's ok to discriminate based on country of birth but not skin colour?

"a white organisation, in a white area, looking to create jobs for white people?"

Would that be ok?

[londonpride]

Why do you think it's ok to discriminate based on country of birth but not skin colour?

"a white organisation, in a white area, looking to create jobs for white people?"

Would that be ok?

because it's britain, and british people should get more advantage.

it's ubsurd to think otherwise imo.

[Rob T]

because it's britain, and british people should get more advantage.

it's ubsurd to think otherwise imo.

Ok, so it's ok for British people to give fellow British people an advantage. Because Britain is a country made up of ~90% British born people (91.7% at Apr 2001 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1312)

But it's not ok for white people to give fellow white people an advantage? In a country which is ~90% white. (92.1% at Apr 2001 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=455)

Why is there a difference?

[daspecimen]

i wouldn't say my thinking on the matter was ubsurd, but i suppose thats a matter of opinion.

interested to see the reply to rob's last post..........

[Nimmy]

depends how you class white people rob, remember those figures are from 2001 since then there was been an influx in eastern european, do we count them, if so then you are still employing people who are white but immigrants?

[Leigh]

Rob T is owning this thread with logic

[Rob T]

depends how you class white people rob, remember those figures are from 2001 since then there was been an influx in eastern european, do we count them, if so then you are still employing people who are white but immigrants?

The figures will definitely have changed, if you can find newer, reliable figures please post them.

Even if they have changed, does that really change my last post? What if the %ages were totally different, would it really make a difference? I don't think so.

[Nimmy]

The figures will definitely have changed, if you can find newer, reliable figures please post them.

Even if they have changed, does that really change my last post? What if the %ages were totally different, would it really make a difference? I don't think so.

im not disagreeing with you, im just saying there has been a huge influx of white europeans in the last 5 years, therefore if we saying white what do we determine as white? if your british you can be black, brown, white or whatever you are still classed as british.

[Nimmy]

Rob T is owning this thread with logic

what do you mean by owning? do you mean by Rob showing us stats? I dont think anyone is argueing with Rob, i think this has been a good thread with good insight

[Rob T]

im not disagreeing with you, im just saying there has been a huge influx of white europeans in the last 5 years, therefore if we saying white what do we determine as white? if your british you can be black, brown, white or whatever you are still classed as british.

I wasn't saying you were disagreeing mate, just throwing some hypothetical questions out.

White is white skin, British is born in Britain (I guess, I think nationality is normally done on what each person identifies themselves as?).

I know British can mean any skin colour, I just don't see how advantaging British people over other nationalities is any different than if it's being done on the basis of skin colour.

[Leigh]

what do you mean by owning? do you mean by Rob showing us stats? I dont think anyone is argueing with Rob, i think this has been a good thread with good insight

Can you read?

[Nimmy]

Can you read?

you crack me up man :cool:

[taffdragon]

I wasn't saying you were disagreeing mate, just throwing some hypothetical questions out.

White is white skin, British is born in Britain (I guess, I think nationality is normally done on what each person identifies themselves as?).

I know British can mean any skin colour, I just don't see how advantaging British people over other nationalities is any different than if it's being done on the basis of skin colour.


but the british jobs for british workers thing is just that. unless im reading what you wrote wrong, no mention of skin colour, just about being british.
i think the steady trickle of immigration thats been going on for years wasnt the problem, only when you get thousands coming in every day it makes an impact on certain communities. whether the immigrants are white or black or brown.

[Jak-TapouT-]

I'm proud To Be White
Someone finally said it.
How many are actually paying attention to this ?
There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,
Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
And then there are just Americans.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
You Call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,'
'Whitey,' 'Caveman' ... and that's OK.
But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head,
Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner , Gook, or Chink ...
You call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you,
so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live ?

You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month , we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance'
OUR lives we'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce,
and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.
Wonder who pays for that ?

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant,
but any color can be in the Miss America pageant. If we had a college
fund that only gave white students scholarships you know we'd be
racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .
Yet if there were 'White colleges' THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your
race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights,
you would call us racists. You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and
orange, and you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us.

But , when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or
beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a
threat to society, you call him a racist.
I am proud.
But you call me a racist.
Why is it that only whites can be racists ?

Nuff' said.....

and besides Jamie Foxx is a cunt, funny as hell. but an utter cock

[jumpinjackflash]

A few years ago i lived with a black dude who i got on real well with but one thing that pissed me off was he used to frequent a chatroom called "black chat" - how is it not racist and how he couldn't see the racism in it is beyond me - he claimed it was just people from the same culture having somewhere to chat...but he couldn't understand why excluding "others" was wrong.

mate its called blacknet forums or something like that and mate it is racist.. does anybody remember the riots in the lozzells area of birmingham a few yrs ago between asians and afro carribeans? well it got started coz of a rumour on that website..

[Rob T]

but the british jobs for british workers thing is just that. unless im reading what you wrote wrong, no mention of skin colour, just about being british.

Are you finding my point that difficult to understand?

Why is it ok to give certain people a preference on jobs based on where they are born, but it's not ok to do the same based on what skin colour they have? No one has any control over either of those factors and neither of them make any (direct) difference to what the person is like.

[taffdragon]

Are you finding my point that difficult to understand?

Why is it ok to give certain people a preference on jobs based on where they are born, but it's not ok to do the same based on what skin colour they have? No one has any control over either of those factors and neither of them make any (direct) difference to what the person is like.

the british goverment has a responsibility to look after british people, not polish, pakistani or any other country. same as the polish govermant looks after poles first. i dont see anything wrong with that? they arnt saying "no person thats not british is allowed to work in britain". they just want to put limits on it.

orginizations like the black police officers assosiation is actively discriminating against white people. like the BNP is discriminating against black people by saying they cant join them. its all discrimination.

[Darkside]

Let's all celebrate this black man

http://www.gossipcheck.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/michael-jackson-neverland.jpg

lol,

10 charecters

[londonpride]

the british goverment has a responsibility to look after british people, not polish, pakistani or any other country. same as the polish govermant looks after poles first. i dont see anything wrong with that? they arnt saying "no person thats not british is allowed to work in britain". they just want to put limits on it.

orginizations like the black police officers assosiation is actively discriminating against white people. like the BNP is discriminating against black people by saying they cant join them. its all discrimination.

'nuff said

[daspecimen]

the british goverment has a responsibility to look after british people, not polish, pakistani or any other country. same as the polish govermant looks after poles first. i dont see anything wrong with that? they arnt saying "no person thats not british is allowed to work in britain". they just want to put limits on it.

orginizations like the black police officers assosiation is actively discriminating against white people. like the BNP is discriminating against black people by saying they cant join them. its all discrimination.

i agree largely, especially the last para. Tbh i didn't know there was a black police officers assosiation, how long has this been in force for? Why was it introduced?

In regards to the first part, again i agree largely but being part of the EU and paying 20m+ a year to Polish families for children that don't even live here is hardly putting britain first. nor is allowing people to seek asylum when they pretend to be gay. The government might have an obligation to do these things but they aren't doing it and being part of the EU surely isn't going to help matters.

If British builders are the best they would surely get the work ahead of Poles/Eastern Europeans?

I believe we should be judged on merit. We're in a recession and times are hard for most people. I work for the NHS and I wouldn't want a British person to be my line manager ahead of a better Polish, African, French person just because they were British, nor would I want to work with a douchebag who got the job because they were British.

[Yak]

Plus where you are born means you obtain certain rights over others that arent born or resident of that country - being a citizen of a country always should entitle you to more than those who arent - else know we are questioning the whole borders and countries idea... which is very seperate

If you are a U K National then it does stand to reason that you should be ahead of the queue for UK services - heathcare etc etc - jobs is tricky...as public sector employment is funded by the taxpayer / government so should have a duty to employ those who are resident first? Its tricky as you want the best candidate - as pointed out above in times of hardship its a very difficult thing with arguments for both sides...


I dont think you can call that racist or predujice. On a higher level it is if you consider the world as a place with no borders or differences but realistically if you have a UK passport then to 99% of people this should put you ahead of a foreign national for anything provided by the UK Govt-- as the majority of UK Nationals are paying into the 'UK system' hence the current backlash against immigration where people see themselves placed behind the needs of people who arent from the UK.... and unfortunately this then ferments into more extreme racism

even when you travel abroad (I agree with this) in most countries at say immigration there is two q's one for that countries nationals and one for 'others' - is this then wrong and racist? or is it just allowing a priviledge to those whose country it actually is?

[londonpride]

i agree largely, especially the last para. Tbh i didn't know there was a black police officers assosiation, how long has this been in force for? Why was it introduced?

In regards to the first part, again i agree largely but being part of the EU and paying 20m+ a year to Polish families for children that don't even live here is hardly putting britain first. nor is allowing people to seek asylum when they pretend to be gay. The government might have an obligation to do these things but they aren't doing it and being part of the EU surely isn't going to help matters.

If British builders are the best they would surely get the work ahead of Poles/Eastern Europeans?

I believe we should be judged on merit. We're in a recession and times are hard for most people. I work for the NHS and I wouldn't want a British person to be my line manager ahead of a better Polish, African, French person just because they were British, nor would I want to work with a douchebag who got the job because they were British.

nope, not at all.
people generally go for the cheap option.
my old mans a sparky and the amount of times the past year he's been called out on emergencys to fix shit done by unqualified eastern europeans is a joke.
people putting their lives at risk by choosing scum who undercut properly qualified british workers. (before anyone starts, i acknowledge there's plenty of british cowboys who work unqualified).

i've had a few mates the past 6 months who've gone out of business (building and plastering trades) due to the influx of poles in their area undercutting them.

british people have the right to be put first by their government,unfortunately this seldom happens.
i don't think it is anywhere near the same as creating jobs for only whites or only blacks.

why should people be disadvantaged in their own country? they didn't chose to move there for work.

[londonpride]

i agree largely, especially the last para. Tbh i didn't know there was a black police officers assosiation, how long has this been in force for? Why was it introduced?

In regards to the first part, again i agree largely but being part of the EU and paying 20m+ a year to Polish families for children that don't even live here is hardly putting britain first. nor is allowing people to seek asylum when they pretend to be gay. The government might have an obligation to do these things but they aren't doing it and being part of the EU surely isn't going to help matters.

If British builders are the best they would surely get the work ahead of Poles/Eastern Europeans?

I believe we should be judged on merit. We're in a recession and times are hard for most people. I work for the NHS and I wouldn't want a British person to be my line manager ahead of a better Polish, African, French person just because they were British, nor would I want to work with a douchebag who got the job because they were British.

whilst the uk is in a bad recession, with growing unemployment rates, british born workers struggling to keep roofs over their heads, the government still allows an open door immigration policy flooding the uk workplace with even more competition for jobs :rolleyes:
it's the same as the housing situation where immigrants get first dips over housing availability:mad: (my mum works for the housing assoc. and is told to put "immigrant and ethnic minorities" at the top of the pile :mad: ) one of the reasons the mrs and i moved abroad as we couldn't get a decent gaff to live in.

[londonpride]

Plus where you are born means you obtain certain rights over others that arent born or resident of that country - being a citizen of a country always should entitle you to more than those who arent - else know we are questioning the whole borders and countries idea... which is very seperate

If you are a U K National then it does stand to reason that you should be ahead of the queue for UK services - heathcare etc etc - jobs is tricky...as public sector employment is funded by the taxpayer / government so should have a duty to employ those who are resident first? Its tricky as you want the best candidate - as pointed out above in times of hardship its a very difficult thing with arguments for both sides...


I dont think you can call that racist or predujice. On a higher level it is if you consider the world as a place with no borders or differences but realistically if you have a UK passport then to 99% of people this should put you ahead of a foreign national for anything provided by the UK Govt-- as the majority of UK Nationals are paying into the 'UK system' hence the current backlash against immigration where people see themselves placed behind the needs of people who arent from the UK.... and unfortunately this then ferments into more extreme racism

even when you travel abroad (I agree with this) in most countries at say immigration there is two q's one for that countries nationals and one for 'others' - is this then wrong and racist? or is it just allowing a priviledge to those whose country it actually is?

good post.

out here in oz the people born here are given preference, and i think that is quite justified. i actually resorted in one job interview to put on a bit of an aussie accent and hide my 'cockneyness' as an aussie advised me it'd give me a better chance of a job. it sounds a bit discriminatory and i get where people are coming from with the "select who is best qualified", how i strongly believe the natives of the country deserve the opportunities first and foremost, it's their country afterall.
it really is turning into a 'world with no borders' which is bollox imo, just another step towards the one world nation and ruling government.

[daspecimen]

whilst the uk is in a bad recession, with growing unemployment rates, british born workers struggling to keep roofs over their heads, the government still allows an open door immigration policy flooding the uk workplace with even more competition for jobs :rolleyes:
it's the same as the housing situation where immigrants get first dips over housing availability:mad: (my mum works for the housing assoc. and is told to put "immigrant and ethnic minorities" at the top of the pile :mad: ) one of the reasons the mrs and i moved abroad as we couldn't get a decent gaff to live in.

i don't disagree, it's not right to have such an open door policy. we should adopt a more hardline approach like the french

[Leigh]

it really is turning into a 'world with no borders' which is bollox imo, just another step towards the one world nation and ruling government.

Why is it bollox? Easy to be right wing when you're in a Western country

[londonpride]

Why is it bollox? Easy to be right wing when you're in a Western country

eh? :confused:

[Leigh]

Lol, ok I mean a developed country

[Travis Bickle]

of course it is racist, music has no colour.

music of white origin the bnp would love that

[Rob T]

I would love it if the world was under one Govt. and people didn't have disagreements based on what arbitarily selected lines they were born between.

Then we can get on to the serious business... UFP.

[Iron Balls]

good post.

out here in oz the people born here are given preference, and i think that is quite justified. i actually resorted in one job interview to put on a bit of an aussie accent and hide my 'cockneyness' as an aussie advised me it'd give me a better chance of a job. it sounds a bit discriminatory and i get where people are coming from with the "select who is best qualified", how i strongly believe the natives of the country deserve the opportunities first and foremost, it's their country afterall.
it really is turning into a 'world with no borders' which is bollox imo, just another step towards the one world nation and ruling government.

That would be the Aboriginies then.

[Rob T]

Who are the natives of a country anyway?

Anyone who is born on the land?
Anyone who is born to parents who were born on the land?
Or do you have to be able to trace your family back to the very first inhabitants of that land?
What about in the case of a country invading another... do those people then become natives? Straight away? After 100 years occupation? 200?
What happens if someone is born on a border?
What if someone has parents of two nationalities?

[taffdragon]

good point, is it someone whos grand parents were born here or someone been here a few years and got a british passport?

[Dave Hirst]

It's anyone who's got a local accent, obviously :)

[Mike Bishop]

I really can't understand how someone can fail to see the inherent racism in the comments from the twat off Kramer. The fact people on here are supporting that garbage really amazes me.

Also I do support positive discrimination in some areas where black people particularly are still heavily under represented. It's not as simple as saying everyone should be treated the same because they're facing real barriers to entry. I'm a lawyer and can count on one hand the number of times the other party's lawyer has been black.

Once we get to a position of real and genuine equality we can have a true merit based system. There are racists on all sides but white males still occupy nearly all senior executive and middle management positions in many companies and do not operate a merit based approach.

I really don't know the answer but how many blacks are CEOs/CFOs of the top FTSE 100 companies ?

[Rob T]

I really can't understand how someone can fail to see the inherent racism in the comments from the twat off Kramer. The fact people on here are supporting that garbage really amazes me.

Agreed. Like I said, I didn't think it was too bad until the rob/carjack bit.



Also I do support positive discrimination in some areas where black people particularly are still heavily under represented. It's not as simple as saying everyone should be treated the same because they're facing real barriers to entry. I'm a lawyer and can count on one hand the number of times the other party's lawyer has been black.

Once we get to a position of real and genuine equality we can have a true merit based system. There are racists on all sides but white males still occupy nearly all senior executive and middle management positions in many companies and do not operate a merit based approach.

This is indeed the problem, undoubtedly there are still people failing to get jobs because of skin colour. However, I don't see how any regulations will help... it is always possible to give a legimate reason not to employ someone, regardless of whether the real reason is "because they are black/asian/etc".



I really don't know the answer but how many blacks are CEOs/CFOs of the top FTSE 100 companies ?

If I had to guess... sadly, I would go for 0.

[Nimmy]

Agreed. Like I said, I didn't think it was too bad until the rob/carjack bit.




This is indeed the problem, undoubtedly there are still people failing to get jobs because of skin colour. However, I don't see how any regulations will help... it is always possible to give a legimate reason not to employ someone, regardless of whether the real reason is "because they are black/asian/etc".




If I had to guess... sadly, I would go for 0.

Theres more to it than skin colour tho isnt there, seems to me alot of people look at this as an excuse.

Barack Obama is black and he has the worlds top job. Collin Powell and Condelisa Rice also have top jobs in the world.

This day and age you can be what you want, ask yourself how many people from working class backgrounds in poor areas have these top jobs and it will likley be a similar story. How many handicapped people have these jobs? its not always a colour thing, its a people thing

[UltimatePunch]

Theres more to it than skin colour tho isnt there, seems to me alot of people look at this as an excuse.

Barack Obama is black and he has the worlds top job. Collin Powell and Condelisa Rice also have top jobs in the world.

This day and age you can be what you want, ask yourself how many people from working class backgrounds in poor areas have these top jobs and it will likley be a similar story. How many handicapped people have these jobs? its not always a colour thing, its a people thing

great post

[Rob T]

Theres more to it than skin colour tho isnt there, seems to me alot of people look at this as an excuse.

Barack Obama is black and he has the worlds top job. Collin Powell and Condelisa Rice also have top jobs in the world.

This day and age you can be what you want, ask yourself how many people from working class backgrounds in poor areas have these top jobs and it will likley be a similar story. How many handicapped people have these jobs? its not always a colour thing, its a people thing

Yeah, and I've already mentioned other things (disability, sexuality etc) in previous posts.

Any form of discrimination based on inconsequential factors is wrong imo, be it skin colour, nationality, sexual preference or whatever else...

[Nimmy]

Yeah, and I've already mentioned other things (disability, sexuality etc) in previous posts.

Any form of discrimination based on inconsequential factors is wrong imo, be it skin colour, nationality, sexual preference or whatever else...

I agree with you mate however why is it that skin colour is screamed from the rooftops, is it however shouts loudest gets the best support?

Seems to me that people want to put white people down and make them feel embarassed because of history. I never put anyone in chains or discriminated anyone why should I be put down, called a honkey and made to feel embarrassed for pointing out that society right now a shit place, that the majority of guncrime and knifecrime in certain high profile areas are committed by ethnic minorities or that some people can play the racecards and others cant because of the colour of their skin.

Yeah sure its not a skin issue, its a locational and poor issue isnt it?... wait isnt that just what I said about high profile jobs etc.... I guess it works both ways.

IMO its easy to bring skin colour into it and use it to your benefit because society is embarrassed because of the past and want to give everyone an equal crack of the whip, my opinion is give everyone an equal shout just dont alienate other people by doing it. Id love it if everyone could live together and get on but when you have liberal leftys refusing to let the world turn freely and we have MOBO, BEA's, black only clubs, white only clubs etc... equality is a long way off and stinks of social apartheid


btw rob im not aiming this at you or anyone else on here and iv never been called a honkey (id laugh if someone called me that)

[thixty]

well i say lets take all the white bitches back then if its tit for tat i fucking cant stand racism or sectarianism and bigotry does my tits in there should be laws that should shut fuckers up like foxx and chris rock

[Rob T]

United Federation of Planets, that's what we need.

[Nimmy]

United Federation of Planets, that's what we need.

who would be president?

....awaits jay darrell nomination :)

[Rob T]

Well, the 1st president was (will be) a white man :(

[Nimmy]

Well, the 1st president was (will be) a white man :(

how times have changed

[madjimmi]

racism works both ways alot of people forget that

[taffdragon]

i dont know if any people replying here are black/coloured, but if there is what do you think about positive discrimination? is it a good thing or is it a bit condecending giveing you a job because of the colour of your skin?

no offence intended if i cause any.

[MsgnpBren]

Makes me laugh how everybody tip-toes around the racism issue. This is clearly racist, as stated if this was the other way around world war 3 would be underway!!!!

[londonpride]

i dont know if any people replying here are black/coloured, but if there is what do you think about positive discrimination? is it a good thing or is it a bit condecending giveing you a job because of the colour of your skin?

no offence intended if i cause any.

positive discrimination can never be a good thing.
it's racist, or is racism ok as long as it works in favour of the ethnic minorities?

[taffdragon]

positive discrimination can never be a good thing.
it's racist, or is racism ok as long as it works in favour of the ethnic minorities?


TBH i agree with you, but was just wondering how the people it affects thought about. to me it seems a bit patronizing. like saying "your not good enough to get the job yourself, but dont worry well give it to you anyway"

[jumpinjackflash]

i dont know if any people replying here are black/coloured, but if there is what do you think about positive discrimination? is it a good thing or is it a bit condecending giveing you a job because of the colour of your skin?

no offence intended if i cause any.

at one point in time it was a good thing because this country was damned racist( it still is to a certain extent), but now i think it should be calmed down. when my dad came to this country from india as a doctor he found it really hard to compete with white doctors who were not as good as him, and only now i know how hard he struggled. he's made it to become a real successful consultant now, but even now there is still racism there, not as bad as it was but it still there.

I think what most white people here forgets is that they are white in majority white country. Dont get me wrong or anything me being indian i dont find that much racism against us apart from when everyone thinks youre muslim and a terrorist.

Racism is natural and everywhere in this world, dont get me started on india.. some of the stuff they get to even advertise over there you'd get shot over here!!

[Leigh]

That just got me thinking, if I go to a doctor and he's white, I feel he has to "prove" himself to me due to all the backwards GPs out there. But if he's black or Indian or Chinese etc then I give them the benefit of the doubt, I guess because I subconsciously think they must have earned their position

Is that racist? Maybe its just OLD doctors, now I think about it

[jumpinjackflash]

That just got me thinking, if I go to a doctor and he's white, I feel he has to "prove" himself to me due to all the backwards GPs out there. But if he's black or Indian or Chinese etc then I give them the benefit of the doubt, I guess because I subconsciously think they must have earned their position

Is that racist? Maybe its just OLD doctors, now I think about it

Most old GP's white or indian i think are crap the younger generation are bit better but GP's on the whole are pretty crap.

I would be more worried bout an eastern european doctor or dentist as they dont have to sit the rigorous exams to get to work in the uk if you are a doctor or even a dentist, since we are part of the EU there are a lot of them coming over with bad english and bad skill set which hasnt been checked but again not all are bad.

[Badnews]

Most old GP's white or indian i think are crap the younger generation are bit better but GP's on the whole are pretty crap.

I would be more worried bout an eastern european doctor or dentist as they dont have to sit the rigorous exams to get to work in the uk if you are a doctor or even a dentist, since we are part of the EU there are a lot of them coming over with bad english and bad skill set which hasnt been checked but again not all are bad.

My dentists keep changing ethnicity... I used to have an old white guy who was lazy and couldn't be bothered, followed by a black bloke who was hyper professional and wanted to change every tooth in my head, followed by a polish lady who gave me a filling with no pain killers, followed by an asian woman who tried to kill me through blood loss during a dental floss demonstration! :(

All had varying degrees of the grasp of English... but they were all equally skillful in making me feel pain.

And where did you find that out? (highlighted bit).. I know a few people who have gone abroad for surgery as it's quicker, cheaper and a better standard of practice than the UK. Why are Doctor's qualifications easier to get in other EU countries?

[taffdragon]

at one point in time it was a good thing because this country was damned racist( it still is to a certain extent), but now i think it should be calmed down. when my dad came to this country from india as a doctor he found it really hard to compete with white doctors who were not as good as him, and only now i know how hard he struggled. he's made it to become a real successful consultant now, but even now there is still racism there, not as bad as it was but it still there.

I think what most white people here forgets is that they are white in majority white country. Dont get me wrong or anything me being indian i dont find that much racism against us apart from when everyone thinks youre muslim and a terrorist.

Racism is natural and everywhere in this world, dont get me started on india.. some of the stuff they get to even advertise over there you'd get shot over here!!

thanks for the answer. i think the past racism you mentioned was more a case of ignorance, not knowing any coloured or asian people. many jumped to conclussions and assumptions about them and made comments that today would see them locked up. look at alf garnet on the TV, if that show was on today the BBC would be shut down. nowadays though racism seems organized and nasty. theres no excuse for anyone, any colour to judge someone on their skin colour.

[jumpinjackflash]

My dentists keep changing ethnicity... I used to have an old white guy who was lazy and couldn't be bothered, followed by a black bloke who was hyper professional and wanted to change every tooth in my head, followed by a polish lady who gave me a filling with no pain killers, followed by an asian woman who tried to kill me through blood loss during a dental floss demonstration! :(

All had varying degrees of the grasp of English... but they were all equally skillful in making me feel pain.

And where did you find that out? (highlighted bit).. I know a few people who have gone abroad for surgery as it's quicker, cheaper and a better standard of practice than the UK. Why are Doctor's qualifications easier to get in other EU countries?

my bro is a dentist, and he has always told me the best dentists in the world are from the uk, we are miles ahead of anyone else in the world when it comes to general dentistry the americans are only more advanced in cosmetic work. I know lots of people from my bro's practice who have gone abroad to get work done and they've come back to him to get it fixed. doctors/dentists qualifications are not easier to get in other EU countries but, their methods of teaching and quality of work is vastly different from ours. The traditional countries where doctors came from, india, australia, south africa etc.. have all been taught to a uk style standard, but if you are not from europe, you still have to sit very difficult exams, but because we are part of europe any doctor/dentist from a country which is part of the EU can work here. doesnt mean they'll all get jobs.

[smeghead]

There have been some interesting comments made about MJ's transformation into a white guy. ON Talk Sport I heard how a black guy had been a big fan of MJ's until he 'turned his back on his black roots and became white".... surely he can see that's racist?

Same music, same guy... different colour. The only reason he doesn't like him now (then) is because he isn't black!?!

Michael Richards comments are so spot on.

Being proud of your country or race is not something to be embarassed about. I'm proud to be English.. yes, English, not British. Funny how it's applauded when someone is proud to be Welsh or Scottish, but being proud to be English is considered racist.


the Michael Richards speech was spot on


Erm, you didn't find anything wrong with the following comment?

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But , when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or
beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a
threat to society, you call him a racist.

Wow

[Ben_Hutch]

Erm, you didn't find anything wrong with the following comment?

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But , when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or
beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a
threat to society, you call him a racist.

Wow

If you are robbed, it is more likely to be done by a black person than a white person. That's not racist, it's a fact (obviously it depends on where you live, for example if you lived in Brixton the % of black people is higher than in Cornwall, but in many cases, the odds of being robbed by a black person are higher than the odds of you being robbed by a white person).

And what's wrong with a police officer beating up a drug dealer? He shouldn't be breaking the law, a good punch in the head should do the crack-dealer good, because sentencing them for 5 years only to let them out after 1 year clearly doesn't seem to do any good.

[smeghead]

If you are robbed, it is more likely to be done by a black person than a white person. That's not racist, it's a fact (obviously it depends on where you live, for example if you lived in Brixton the % of black people is higher than in Cornwall, but in many cases, the odds of being robbed by a black person are higher than the odds of you being robbed by a white person).

And what's wrong with a police officer beating up a drug dealer? He shouldn't be breaking the law, a good punch in the head should do the crack-dealer good, because sentencing them for 5 years only to let them out after 1 year clearly doesn't seem to do any good.

lol, do you have any statistics to back up your wildly inaccurate claim that you're more likely to be robbed by a black person than a white person? In 2001 it was reported 28% of people arrested for robberies in Britain are black, I'm pretty sure things have changed that much since then.

Erm, because the job of a police officer is to arrest a 'suspected' criminal who will then be tried in court to see whether he/she is guilty of a crime. If we had police officers handing out ritual beatings to people they think are drug dealers and criminals, then I'm pretty sure they'd be a huge backlash against them. Incidentally, do you think there was anything wrong with the death of Ian Tomlinson?

Also, Michael Richards' comments insinuate that only black people rob, shoot and carjack. I'm dumbfounded people actually think he's talking sense.

[Rob T]

If you are robbed, it is more likely to be done by a black person than a white person. That's not racist, it's a fact (obviously it depends on where you live, for example if you lived in Brixton the % of black people is higher than in Cornwall, but in many cases, the odds of being robbed by a black person are higher than the odds of you being robbed by a white person).

And what's wrong with a police officer beating up a drug dealer? He shouldn't be breaking the law, a good punch in the head should do the crack-dealer good, because sentencing them for 5 years only to let them out after 1 year clearly doesn't seem to do any good.

Please provide some statistics to back up your claims. Until then this post can fuck off.

[Ben_Hutch]

Please provide some statistics to back up your claims. Until then this post can fuck off.

How many black people get sentenced for stabbings in London compared the the number of white people who get sentenced for stabbings in London? I doubt the statistics for muggings in certain parts of London would be too much different.

Not sure how a post, with no physical attributes, can fuck off. But whatever you say champ.

[Rob T]

How many black people get sentenced for stabbings in London compared the the number of white people who get sentenced for stabbings in London? I doubt the statistics for muggings in certain parts of London would be too much different.


So you can't back up your post with anything other than more posturing and unsubstantiated claims?

[Rob T]

How about this;

"Arrests Tables 5.1 - 5.5
There were 1,330,441 arrests for notifiable offences in 2003/4, an increase of 1.3% on the previous year (1,313,110 in 2002/3). Of these, 116,427 (9%) were recorded as being of Black people, 63,458 (5%) of Asian people and 19,092 (1%) of ‘Other’ groups (Table 5.1)"

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/s95race04.pdf


"Arrests: Tables 5.1- 5.5
Table 5.1 shows total arrests for notifiable offences, by police force and ethnic appearance. There were 1,349,427 arrests for notifiable offences in 2004/5, an increase of 1.7% on the previous year (1,326,331 in 2003/4). Of these, 118,734 (9%) were recorded as being of Black people, 65,979 (5%) of Asian people and 19,508 (1.5%) of those in ‘Other’ groups."

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/s95race05.pdf

[Ben_Hutch]

How about this;

"Arrests Tables 5.1 - 5.5
There were 1,330,441 arrests for notifiable offences in 2003/4, an increase of 1.3% on the previous year (1,313,110 in 2002/3). Of these, 116,427 (9%) were recorded as being of Black people, 63,458 (5%) of Asian people and 19,092 (1%) of ‘Other’ groups (Table 5.1)"

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/s95race04.pdf


"Arrests: Tables 5.1- 5.5
Table 5.1 shows total arrests for notifiable offences, by police force and ethnic appearance. There were 1,349,427 arrests for notifiable offences in 2004/5, an increase of 1.7% on the previous year (1,326,331 in 2003/4). Of these, 118,734 (9%) were recorded as being of Black people, 65,979 (5%) of Asian people and 19,508 (1.5%) of those in ‘Other’ groups."

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/s95race05.pdf

In which area are those statistics based on?

[Rob T]

The links are in the post.

[Ben_Hutch]

The links are in the post.

In a country which is what, 90% white? Is it really any surprise that the majority of crimes are done by white people?

Maybe it would have been better if i'd said the % of black people doing muggings is higher than the % of white people doing muggings in certain areas of London. That would be a fair statement imo.

[Rob T]

Maybe it would have been better if i'd said the % of black people doing muggings is higher than the % of white people doing muggings in certain areas of London. That would be a fair statement imo.

But that isn't what you said. You just made a completely wrong claim without backing it up, then when challenged on it you argued in support of your original argument. So don't start backtracking now.

[Jak-TapouT-]

Incidentally, do you think there was anything wrong with the death of Ian Tomlinson?

Is that the fella who got shot by the police in the train station?

if so, am i correct in thinking, this was like an hour after the london bombings, and when asked to stop by the cops, he tried to run....


In all fairness, i dont justify the cops actions....but i understand.


But that isn't what you said. You just made a completely wrong claim without backing it up, then when challenged on it you argued in support of your original argument. So don't start backtracking now.

So what would be the point of your arguement? you provided your point and changed Bens mind..surely thats a good thing? what do you have to gain by keep argueing with him?

[Ben_Hutch]

So what would be the point of your arguement? you provided your point and changed Bens mind..surely thats a good thing? what do you have to gain by keep argueing with him?

Not quite sure what he wanted me to do :confused:

Maybe he wanted the sex, who knows.

[Jak-TapouT-]

Not quite sure what he wanted me to do :confused:

Maybe he wanted the sex, who knows.

lmao, make-up sex ftw....allmost as good as pity sex.

[Ben_Hutch]

lmao, make-up sex ftw....allmost as good as pity sex.

I think if you mix the two together you're in for a winner for sure, make-up sex filled with a bit of pity for the girl ftw!

[Rob T]

So what would be the point of your arguement? you provided your point and changed Bens mind..surely thats a good thing? what do you have to gain by keep argueing with him?

He didn't change his mind, he tried to pretend he meant something different.

I am guessing he is probably just a kid though.

[Ben_Hutch]

He didn't change his mind, he tried to pretend he meant something different.

I am guessing he is probably just a kid though.

How do you if i did or didn't change my mind? And nothing i said shows that i tried to pretend i meant something different.

You're as good at psychology as Mystic Meg, don't give up the day job.

[Jak-TapouT-]

He didn't change his mind, he tried to pretend he meant something different.

I am guessing he is probably just a kid though.

I can see your point man, but his post didnt come across as pretending to me, it seemed genuine. Maybe cos its an internet thang.

[Ben_Hutch]

I can see your point man, but his post didnt come across as pretending to me, it seemed genuine. Maybe cos its an internet thang.

That's the annoying thing about the internet, you can't tell someone's tone of voice :(

[Badnews]

That's the annoying thing about the internet, you can't tell someone's tone of voice :(

Maybe not, but it does seem a little like you manage to get people's backs up pretty easily on this forum Ben! Maybe you should use a different font/type for different tones of voice or meanings?....

Italics for sarcasm

BOLD CAPITALS FOR ANGRY AND SHOUTING

Underlined to put heavy slow emphasis on a point

Red for love

Green for jealous

Blue for something rude

Any others????

Or is the use of colours to express feelings racist? :p

[Ben_Hutch]

Maybe not, but it does seem a little like you manage to get people's backs up pretty easily on this forum Ben! Maybe you should use a different font/type for different tones of voice or meanings?....

Italics for sarcasm

BOLD CAPITALS FOR ANGRY AND SHOUTING

Underlined to put heavy slow emphasis on a point

Red for love

Green for jealous

Blue for something rude

Any others????

Or is the use of colours to express feelings racist? :p

Purple for.....


http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8677/catlmi.jpg

[Jak-TapouT-]

no mere acronym can express how funny that is!

[smeghead]

In a country which is what, 90% white? Is it really any surprise that the majority of crimes are done by white people?

Maybe it would have been better if i'd said the % of black people doing muggings is higher than the % of white people doing muggings in certain areas of London. That would be a fair statement imo.

LOL I hope you now understand how stupid your initial statement was.

[smeghead]

Is that the fella who got shot by the police in the train station?

if so, am i correct in thinking, this was like an hour after the london bombings, and when asked to stop by the cops, he tried to run....


In all fairness, i dont justify the cops actions....but i understand.




No, that was the innocent bystander who was making his way home during the G20 protests and died after being pushed to the ground and hit with a baton by heavy handed police officers.

[Ben_Hutch]

LOL I hope you now understand how stupid your initial statement was.

Pick on the man while he's down, tough guy :o

[Jak-TapouT-]

No, that was the innocent bystander who was making his way home during the G20 protests and died after being pushed to the ground and hit with a baton by heavy handed police officers.

Oh right, my bad.


and yeah, its dead man, you dont need to keep kicking it :D

[Leigh]

Yes you do, that statement by Kramer was racist and its shocking that so many people think its "spot on"

[taffdragon]

Yes you do, that statement by Kramer was racist and its shocking that so many people think its "spot on"


i think he was spot on till he started on about carjackings TBH. most of the time, when a white person mentions anything negitive about race hes branded a racist.

from the bit about carjackkings on though was racist i think.

[TheUnfitOne]

It's a difficult one, I remember a few years ago a top london police officer was hounded from his post after saying that in a certain part of London the majority of street robberies were carried out by 'young black males' which was a statistical fact (a financial, social & educational problem rather than a race problem imo)

But should he have said it ? would it do more to strenghen & fuel the predjudice and do more damage in the long run ?

I really don't know

[Manik]

the difference was the police officer wasn't reducing the whole black population to a bunch of muggers carjackers etc as Kramer did.

[londonpride]

It's a difficult one, I remember a few years ago a top london police officer was hounded from his post after saying that in a certain part of London the majority of street robberies were carried out by 'young black males' which was a statistical fact (a financial, social & educational problem rather than a race problem imo)

But should he have said it ? would it do more to strenghen & fuel the predjudice and do more damage in the long run ?

I really don't know

why is he wrong to say it?
if he can back it up statistically then it isn't racist at all.

blacks make up the minor % of london population, but make up a huge % of prison population. the same thing is worldwide - australia, america, canada etc. but we're racist eh.;) :rolleyes:

[Leigh]

i think he was spot on till he started on about carjackings TBH. most of the time, when a white person mentions anything negitive about race hes branded a racist.

from the bit about carjackkings on though was racist i think.

I agree that some of his points were valid. But his statement was certainly not "spot on"

[taffdragon]

I agree that some of his points were valid. But his statement was certainly not "spot on"

whats the difference between valid and spot on?

[Sinko]

That stuff posted before has fuck all to do with Kramer:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp

It's just some anonymous bollocks regurgitated by mongs* who've tricked themselves into thinking they're being oppressed by "da effnics".

*plenty of which populate this site and further re-inforce the stereotype that British MMA is largely followed by knuckledraggers, "londonpride" being one of the most obviously thick offenders.

[Nimmy]

158 posts, this is a hot topic and nowhere near the MOBOs where it started

[SuntanSuperman]

The concept of the MOBO's is totally racist, as has been said, if there was a MOWO it would not go down well at all and would be branded racist.

The whole Jamie Fox statement is bollox, and actually quite laughable...as the person the black community shared with us wanted nothing more in his life than to be white.

And i am fed up of positive discrimination. SO many of my friends cant get into the police or fire service as they are white, middle aged males, and recruitment is limited to ethnic minorities. Fucks me off. Watch American History X for a brilliant explanation of why it should be the best man for the job...be he black or white.

And what realy fucked me off recently was when Pakistan won the cricket, Bradford was drove too a standstill as car flooded the street sporting huge pakistani flags and air horns, and with people of all ages climbing out of windows and shouting.
You live in Enlgand guys, and the majority of you were probably born here and have visited Pakistan twice in your lifes (or once a year at most.) If pakistan meens that much too u then fuck off back there! Me, and the vast majority of people dont want too hear it.
I was born in America and represent them internationally, however i have lived in england the vast majority of my life and they are the only team i would celebrate in this country.

Probably havent explained that very well, but i know what i meen. Nothing wrong with been proud of your heritage, but if it meens that much too u that u cause unrest in the country i love then i would ask u to pack your bags and fuck off 'home'

[SJRM]

And i am fed up of positive discrimination. SO many of my friends cant get into the police or fire service as they are white, middle aged males, and recruitment is limited to ethnic minorities. Fucks me off.

Quite laughable really – Despite what appears to be quite popular belief, most recruits in the fire service (can’t comment on police) are still British, white males. Maybe your mates just weren’t good enough for the job? Seems like an ideal excuse as well, blaming the pesky immigrants and ‘racist’ policies for not getting the job, rather than considering that they fell short of the required skills/intelligence required?

There is no ‘positive discrimination’ at the organisation that I work at (a fire service) and as far as I am aware, have yet to see any documented evidence that this takes place anywhere…

There are ‘positive action’ days in the lead up to recruitment campaigns – these are to ‘encourage’ ethnic minorities and other under represented groups (females) to apply for positions within the organisation. This is completely different to being ‘limited to ethnic minorities’. And if you can’t understand the need for this kind of encouragement to under-represented groups within a public funded organisation then you probably need to go away and spend some time thinking about it before you come on raging about positive discrimination/reverse racism…..

[Rob T]

And what realy fucked me off recently was when Pakistan won the cricket, Bradford was drove too a standstill as car flooded the street sporting huge pakistani flags and air horns, and with people of all ages climbing out of windows and shouting.
You live in Enlgand guys, and the majority of you were probably born here and have visited Pakistan twice in your lifes (or once a year at most.) If pakistan meens that much too u then fuck off back there! Me, and the vast majority of people dont want too hear it.
I was born in America and represent them internationally, however i have lived in england the vast majority of my life and they are the only team i would celebrate in this country.

Would you feel the same if Welsh people celebrated a Welsh sporting success (unlikely, I know) while in England? Or Irish/Scottish people did the same? Would you want them to "fuck off home"?

[UltimatePunch]

I dont get it really. Why would you want an award that your skin colour has had a major factor in you getting it? Imagine if the ufc said lets have a bufc so black atheletes can win belts ??? They would get blown to bits for being racist! I think a grammy award is more coverted than a MOBO as the competition isnt limited by skin colour or musical genre.

[SuntanSuperman]

Quite laughable really – Despite what appears to be quite popular belief, most recruits in the fire service (can’t comment on police) are still British, white males. Maybe your mates just weren’t good enough for the job? Seems like an ideal excuse as well, blaming the pesky immigrants and ‘racist’ policies for not getting the job, rather than considering that they fell short of the required skills/intelligence required?

There is no ‘positive discrimination’ at the organisation that I work at (a fire service) and as far as I am aware, have yet to see any documented evidence that this takes place anywhere…

There are ‘positive action’ days in the lead up to recruitment campaigns – these are to ‘encourage’ ethnic minorities and other under represented groups (females) to apply for positions within the organisation. This is completely different to being ‘limited to ethnic minorities’. And if you can’t understand the need for this kind of encouragement to under-represented groups within a public funded organisation then you probably need to go away and spend some time thinking about it before you come on raging about positive discrimination/reverse racism…..

Totally incorrect. The fact the British Police is made up predominatley of white males is not in question, nor is the fact that they are now actively trying to increase the number of none white males who join, therebye ensuring the figures less disproportionate.

As to the fire service, kindly ring up west yorkshire fire service and they will happily tell you that they are only redcruiting for ethnic minorities.

I am all for ethnic minorities working in the public sector, and can see the thinking behind it.....but never at the expense of better candidates, no matter what creed or colour they are.

and UP....yes i would be equally as annoyed if Welsh people celebrated in England.....if the country meens that much to u...then go home

[TheUnfitOne]

Totally incorrect. The fact the British Police is made up predominatley of white males is not in question, nor is the fact that they are now actively trying to increase the number of none white males who join, therebye ensuring the figures less disproportionate.

As to the fire service, kindly ring up west yorkshire fire service and they will happily tell you that they are only redcruiting for ethnic minorities.

I am all for ethnic minorities working in the public sector, and can see the thinking behind it.....but never at the expense of better candidates, no matter what creed or colour they are.

and UP....yes i would be equally as annoyed if Welsh people celebrated in England.....if the country meens that much to u...then go home

American History X

Great, great movie

[SuntanSuperman]

police opnely considering positive discrimination: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6570545.stm

examples of positive discrimination in the Met: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/4526401.stm

fucking over white,male candidates secretly and been caught out: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-406385/Police-force-admits-discriminating-white-recruits.html
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/police%20admit%20positive%20discrimination/169440

80% of Fire serviec open days only for women and ethnic minorities: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-510418/Fire-service-bans-white-men-open-days--boost-number-ethnic-minority-recruits.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576499/Fire-brigade-discriminating-against-white-men.html

its ok to be wrong

[Leigh]

whats the difference between valid and spot on?

"Spot on" means everything is perfect and correct. As you have agreed, that does not apply to that post. SOME of the comments were valid but SOME were absurd

So the post as a whole was certainly not "spot on"

Glad I could clear that up for you :)

[SuntanSuperman]

classic Leigh ownage

[SJRM]

As to the fire service, kindly ring up west yorkshire fire service and they will happily tell you that they are only redcruiting for ethnic minorities.


Didn't bother phoning them, I 'kindly' (??) looked at their website to find details of their equality & fairness policy with regards to recruitment.

"West Yorkshire Fire & Rescue Service welcomes applications for employment from all sections of society, and has put into place various policies and procedures that ensure the dignity of; and respect for, all its employees.

These pages aim to provide you with information regarding vacancies within the service and the process of application, for wholetime firefighter posts, giving details of where the advertisements will be placed.

We regret that, as we are not currently registered under The Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, we are unable to accept applications from those who are not eligible to work in the United Kingdom."


its ok to be wrong

Your other links provide limited examples of illegal/immoral policies and behaviour. It probably isn't reported every time a public service recruits within the guidelines. Sounds to me like your mates are as stupid as you and are pulling the 'positive discrimination' card as an excuse.

[SuntanSuperman]

the website policy may be the official line....however in practice it is not.
Also the policy makes no reference to all applications been treated equal, only that they are all invited.

The links are just several examples of many, and one of them is a police chief calling for positive discrimination to be actively followed.

whilst i am sure there are many examples of positive discrimination not been put into place, you are very nieve if you dont think it does exist.

Furthermore, i am an ex policeman and currently Departmental Head at a school mate educated beyond Masters level...stupid i am not. However your inaccurate assumptions and inability to offer any credible evidence to back up your arguement suggests that maybe you are.

[SuntanSuperman]

SJRM...i'm guessing you are not a white middle aged man...would i be correct?

[SJRM]

Furthermore, i am an ex policeman and currently Departmental Head at a school mate educated beyond Masters level...stupid i am not.

lol at basing your level of intelligence on being recruited to the police and a school. :D


the website policy may be the official line....however in practice it is not.


again - lol. So they'll stick to the official line on the website, but not if I 'kindly' phoned them to ask...


and one of them is a police chief calling for positive discrimination to be actively followed.


sorry - which one was that?? Couldn't find that one?? Are you referring to the one where a police chief is openly encouraging the need for debate on this issue?? In which case you are either a) talking rubbish to suit your arguement or b) stupid.


you are very nieve if you dont think it does exist.


Just show me where I wrote that I didn't think it exists.....

[SuntanSuperman]

i dont know where to start with that drivel
you can base my intelligence on my IQ or on my academic successes...either are fine. It was you who implied i must be stupid, like my mates who couldnt get into the police....i was simply letting you know that wasnt the case

you seem to have a problem with manners, eg me asking you 'kindly' to do something, rather than telling you. Are you incapable of appreciating manners, or is it something else?

im pretty sure that a police chief suggesting that positive discrimination should be considered, when alligned with many examples of it actually happening suggests that it is definatley something that goes on, ieven if instutionally unitentional.

If it does exist, which u are apparently now not denying, then why would you say my friends must be stupid when they were told they could not apply for the fire service based on their ethnicity? Are you saying it does now exist? If so, then why brand people you have no knowledge of as stupid. Your arguement follows no logic and the holes are quite apparent

[SJRM]

you can base my intelligence on my IQ or on my academic successes...either are fine.

i'll base it on the content and coherence of your posts. To suggest anything else would be....... lets just say stupid, as I don't know you.


im pretty sure that a police chief suggesting that positive discrimination should be considered

Not once in that article did it say that the police chief was considering implementing positive discrimination. Goodness please display some of you superior intelligence will you.


If it does exist, which u are apparently now not denying,

And never denied that there might be isolated incidents.


Your arguement follows no logic and the holes are quite apparent

Oh the irony. You suggested that by phoning West Yorks FRS, that would prove that they are soley recruiting ethnic minorities. Their website suggests otherwise. You then fall back on


the website policy may be the official line....however in practice it is not

talk about holes and anti-logic.

[SuntanSuperman]

Yes it would be stupid...and yet you asumed the lack of intelligence of my friends based on never hearing a word from them. You are undone by your own arguement.

Ahh sorry, the buzz word for todays Left wingg PC gone mad nuthuggers is 'affirmitave action'.....not positive discrimination..my mistake.

If there are isolated incidents then why assume peoples stupidity without knowing the nature of the circumstances? That and the fact that intelligence never came into their attempts to join the services, as they were never even sent an application as both forces were not accepting apllications from non ethnics at that time, suggests that you made a poor assumption based on your misguided beliefs

And finally, they website suggests nothing of the kind. Yes it says that the fireserviuce welcomes applications from all people, but it certainly never says they will be tret equally or without preference at certian times

ps

as for your last point...the nazis denied the millions of people they killed in the gas chambers, doesnt make it true does it.

[SuntanSuperman]

oh...and you still havent told me the demographic you belong too....im just curious to know

[SJRM]

the nazis denied the millions of people they killed in the gas chambers

so you're comparing genocide to you're mates not being clever enough to get into the police??? wierd logic my friend.


as they were never even sent an application as both forces were not accepting apllications from non ethnics at that time

I'm calling bullshit on this one....... Are you sure didn't watch that scene from American History X with your friends, and thats whats confusing you??

It's people like you that propogate fictional stories almost to the extent where they become true (true, at least to people like you).

So just to confirm - your friends phone West Yorks FRS for an application form, and were told they couldn't have one cos they were white :D


oh...and you still havent told me the demographic you belong too....im just curious to know

Although you had a good guess didn't you:


SJRM...i'm guessing you are not a white middle aged man...would i be correct?

for somebody who is harking on about the wrongs of 'affirmitave action' your viewpoints appear a little biggoted here - judging my ethnicity on my opinions. maybe even racist. naughty naughty Simon.

I'm thinking its more interesting for you not to know. Altho feel free to keep guessing......

How long have you been teaching for by the way?

[taffdragon]

"Spot on" means everything is perfect and correct. As you have agreed, that does not apply to that post. SOME of the comments were valid but SOME were absurd

So the post as a whole was certainly not "spot on"

Glad I could clear that up for you :)

i didnt say it was absolutley correct. i said it was correct up to a point, which you agreed with.

thank you for pointing out the meaning of "spot on", ill be more carefull useing it from now on.



classic Leigh ownage

yeah right :rolleyes:

[SuntanSuperman]

your ethnicity are clearly biasing your opinions...that or u dont live in the real world

[taffdragon]

We regret that, as we are not currently registered under The Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, we are unable to accept applications from those who are not eligible to work in the United Kingdom."[/I]

as it says above, they cant accept applications off immigrants and asylum seekers dosent it? it dont say nothing about a someone from an ethnic minority born and raised in the UK applying.

[SJRM]

as it says above, they cant accept applications off immigrants and asylum seekers dosent it? it dont say nothing about a someone from an ethnic minority born and raised in the UK applying.

Wake up McFly - I was emphatically proving that they don't solely accept applications from ethnic minorities, as Simon stated. That was all.


your ethnicity are clearly biasing your opinions...that or u dont live in the real world

What, Simon's real world is that?? One of bigotry & racism. How long have you been teaching for again? Hope it's not language/English that you are 'Head of Dept' ;)

[Leigh]

i didnt say it was absolutley correct. i said it was correct up to a point, which you agreed with.

Never said you did :confused:


thank you for pointing out the meaning of "spot on", ill be more carefull useing it from now on.

No problem - you asked and I answered, no more, no less

[taffdragon]

@leigh, thanks again.


before anyone says anything, yes i know the link is from the BNP site, but it doesnt alter the facts. positive discrimination in the police force.


http://bnp.org.uk/2008/10/greater-manchester-police-chief-wants-preferential-treatment-for-non-whites-in-recruitment/

"In 2006, Avon and Somerset discarded nearly 200 applications from white men simply on the grounds that they were white and males. Ralph Welsman, one of those white applicants, took the force to court over this discrimination and the Avon and Somerset force admitted their unlawful actions and settled with Mr. Welsman out of court.

And in the same year, Gloucester police were forced to pay compensation to Matt Powell who was one of 108 white applicants who had their application forms thrown into the bin simply because they were white.

Avon and Somerset police discarded nearly 200 applications from young white men after a recruitment drive last year to give greater opportunity to women and ethnic minority candidates. It claimed that white males were “over- represented” on the force."

[SuntanSuperman]

Teacher for 3 years mate

[Rob T]

yes i would be equally as annoyed if Welsh people celebrated in England.....if the country meens that much to u...then go home

What about if someone in town A was celebrating his team from town B (both towns in the same country) winning something?

[SuntanSuperman]

a fair point Rob, and i was considering that the other day and agree if throws a spanner into my arguement.

all i can say is that as a leeds fan if i went into bradford and started celebrating i would get my head stoved in...and would deserve and expect it.

I think it boils down to the fact that people are much more interested in national than regional achievements. It wouldnt bother me if i saw some man u fans celebrating elsewhere, as they are still in their country (england)....how ever other nationalities do not have the same umbrella over them in tht they are part of this country

[Rob T]

Why should anyone "deserve and expect" to get their head kicked in for celebrating any victory?

Why are national borders any more important than local ones? I think the whole ideas of borders is stupid though, so hey.

[MMAlien]

Why should anyone "deserve and expect" to get their head kicked in for celebrating any victory?

Why are national borders any more important than local ones? I think the whole ideas of borders is stupid though, so hey.

Yeah, i have to spend £5.40 just to get home on the bridge, i say down with borders!

[Nimmy]

Why should anyone "deserve and expect" to get their head kicked in for celebrating any victory?

Why are national borders any more important than local ones? I think the whole ideas of borders is stupid though, so hey.

people are comfortable with Borders. they get security from it

[madjimmi]

a fair point Rob, and i was considering that the other day and agree if throws a spanner into my arguement.

all i can say is that as a leeds fan if i went into bradford and started celebrating i would get my head stoved in...and would deserve and expect it.

I think it boils down to the fact that people are much more interested in national than regional achievements. It wouldnt bother me if i saw some man u fans celebrating elsewhere, as they are still in their country (england)....how ever other nationalities do not have the same umbrella over them in tht they are part of this country

leeds utd whoop whoop i hav a cousin who has a teacher into cagefighting i wonder if its you, i train at caged steel n live locally to giv you a clue of the school

[Rob T]

people are comfortable with Borders. they get security from it

Probably true, yeah.

It's never been something that has made sense to me. Maybe because I moved so much as a kid... but only between Wales and England, so not exactly a big deal.

I don't find that I have more in common (beyond the mundane) with people just because they live closer to me or were born in the same place. I don't feel any pride in my nationality, nor do I feel any disdain towards people of other nationalities.

I wonder how those who think British > immigrants feel about, say, inhabitants of the Falklands... do they have more of a "right" to live in mainland UK than someone from France?

Distinction between species is as much as we need to worry about imo, and even that can be complicated (not for humans at present though). Shame we can't all get along and accept our differences.

[mainsy]

I think Rob T is literally the Devil's Advocate

[Rob T]

I think Rob T is literally the Devil's Advocate

Quite possibly, lol. I have never seemed to view things the same way as the majority of people.

[Nimmy]

Quite possibly, lol. I have never seemed to view things the same way as the majority of people.

when making a point on here its always wise to try and do it when Rob T or Leigh Remedios is not online or your always going to get one of them argueing the other way :D

[SuntanSuperman]

Why should anyone "deserve and expect" to get their head kicked in for celebrating any victory?

Why are national borders any more important than local ones? I think the whole ideas of borders is stupid though, so hey.

becasue i would have to accept that i am celebrating a victory in an area that is probably not too happy about it. If i want to celebrate and not provoke anyone then i would do so in the area of the victors. Its a sad styate of affairs but thats how it is. Plus people are much more protective on national rather than regional borders

madjimmi...thats me...im guessing ur mate when to Fishers

[Rob T]

becasue i would have to accept that i am celebrating a victory in an area that is probably not too happy about it. If i want to celebrate and not provoke anyone then i would do so in the area of the victors. Its a sad styate of affairs but thats how it is. Plus people are much more protective on national rather than regional borders


None of that really answered my questions. Celebrating a sporting victory should never result in violence, it's just utterly retarded. Saying "it's a sad state..." doesn't justify it, if people have stupid reactions to things it is best to stand up to them, not shy away from them. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil..." etc.

Why are people more protective over national borders than regional? How does that make any sense? I think it's probably somewhat a UK thing because our borders make a little bit more sense than those sharing a mainland.

[madjimmi]

becasue i would have to accept that i am celebrating a victory in an area that is probably not too happy about it. If i want to celebrate and not provoke anyone then i would do so in the area of the victors. Its a sad styate of affairs but thats how it is. Plus people are much more protective on national rather than regional borders

madjimmi...thats me...im guessing ur mate when to Fishers

its my cousin shes still there now 1st year

[mainsy]

None of that really answered my questions. Celebrating a sporting victory should never result in violence, it's just utterly retarded. Saying "it's a sad state..." doesn't justify it, if people have stupid reactions to things it is best to stand up to them, not shy away from them. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil..." etc.

Why are people more protective over national borders than regional? How does that make any sense? I think it's probably somewhat a UK thing because our borders make a little bit more sense than those sharing a mainland.

I agree that it is ridiculous that any celebration of a sporting victory results in violence, however in some cases it does. For example I am from Glasgow where walking down the wrong street in a Rangers and Celtic jersey could potentially end your life.

Is it right? No.

Does it happen? Far too frequently I am afraid.

[SuntanSuperman]

jimmi - ive elft now
Rob - i would never condone violence in the name of sport...however i sadly would expect it due to the mindset of some idiots.
And thats beside the point...at no time did i suggest i wanted to fight people celebrating another countries victory in england

[madjimmi]

jimmi - ive elft now
Rob - i would never condone violence in the name of sport...however i sadly would expect it due to the mindset of some idiots.
And thats beside the point...at no time did i suggest i wanted to fight people celebrating another countries victory in england

i would im a cunt apparently

[Leigh]

Rob - i would never condone violence in the name of sport...however i sadly would expect it due to the mindset of some idiots.


all i can say is that as a leeds fan if i went into bradford and started celebrating i would get my head stoved in...and would deserve and expect it.

Classic Leigh ownage :D

[SuntanSuperman]

i would deserve it...just like i would deserve prison if i jumped on the head of a rapist according to many......doesnt make it right tho

[londonpride]

jimmi - ive elft now
Rob - i would never condone violence in the name of sport...however i sadly would expect it due to the mindset of some idiots.
And thats beside the point...at no time did i suggest i wanted to fight people celebrating another countries victory in england

if a country beat england and their immigrants in england took total liberties i'd be more than happy to dish out slaps.
islington erupted after galatasaraay beat the arsenal in the uefa cup final 2000. quite rightly too...........

[Leigh]

i would deserve it...just like i would deserve prison if i jumped on the head of a rapist according to many......doesnt make it right tho

Bwahahahaha, nice try but you owned yourself

[SuntanSuperman]

i totally got out of it Leigh
Its ok to be impressed

[Ben_Hutch]

Most recent race-related thread so i'll post this in here.

I'm doing a football coaching course at college and we were given an FA card with numbers to call if you suspect a child you're coaching is being abused at home. There's a normal Helpine but also a seperate Asian Helpline.

I don't get why the fuck there are 2 different helplines, one for Asians and one for everyone else :confused:

[Rob T]

Asian culture and family life is very different to western society. The people on that line probably have more experience dealing with it... also, they may have specialist knowledge of Islam etc.

[Lyoto The Cheater Machida]

The MOBO's are fucking pathetic and a disgrace to modern day music. I dont know if anyone has checked the Rap/R'n'B/Reggae/Garage/Soul sales recently but they are dominated by black musicians.

Black musicians seem to do pretty well in every genre now so the MOBO awards really have no basis. I dont care if white artists win...the point is that saying Rap music for example is BLACK MUSIC just because black people started it is very racist. It's like going to the olympics and changing the name to "Olympic games of white origin". It's pathetic.

Double standards just cause segregation.

As for that dickhead Jamie Foxx, what he needs to remember is Michael Jackson's message was "it doesnt matter if you're black or white". MJ certainly didnt think so considering he adopted white kids.