Is Plain Ju Jitsu Ok?

[Gazza]

Hi i am just getting into traditional ju jitsu as a self defense and a hobby/keep fit but now i am thinking about going into MMA the only problem is my freind told me that ju jitsu was bad for MMA and that i should do something like BJJ, judo,maui thai or boxing is this true because and if so will i still be able to do normal ju jitsu aswell as one of these?

[pauljono1120]

Do BJJ, not traditional Ju jitsu.

[Rob T]

paul, I don't think you understand the question.


Gazza, whether the jujitsu you're doing will be any good greatly depends on how you're being taught/how you are training. If you are doing eye gouges, bites, stupid wrist grabs to throat strikes etc... all that stuff is a- pointless and b- shit. If you are properly drilling throws/takedowns and grappling, and also sparring it a lot, then it just depends on the quality of instruction.

Overall, you would probably be better off finding a local BJJ school for grappling and boxing/thai for striking. Or if there is a local MMA school by you which does it all, go there.

[pauljono1120]

Good answer rob... I forgot ju jitsu involved all those crappy wrist grab shit, which doesnt work.

At my gym i just go over mma shit like takedowns, submissions that actually do work LOL.

Thats a bite like karate in a way, a complete waste of time.
I knew someone who was brown belt karate, and was a complete puff :/.

[Jogs D]

I trained trad Jiu-Jitsu for a couple of years ago before discovering BJJ/MMA....

Never been to Trad JJ since and never will... Fancy techniques - totally unrealistic - no sparring/testing techniques under pressure etc....

If you want self defence IMO you should be training striking (Boxing/Muay Thai), with a lot of work on The Fence and Pre-emptive striking aka Geoff Thompson/Peter Consterdine.... Combine that with some solid grappling skills (BJJ, Judo, Wrestling etc), and that should prepare you for most situations....

[Gazza]

Thanks Paul and Rob youv reasured me alot and btw Rob i am doing some wrist grabs because im a low belt right now but there are black belts there that show me how to exicute a good throws and and armbars properly so im gonna stick with JJJ for now and then throw in another martial art later:D
Thanks
Gareth

[pauljono1120]

I know this is out of question, but can anyone explain those karate katas to me?

I don't see the point in them at all.

[Leigh]

To get better at your techniques

[Rob T]

I know this is out of question, but can anyone explain those karate katas to me?

I don't see the point in them at all.

Think about shadow boxing and drilling techs in wrestling/BJJ, it's basically karate's version of that. It's only bad if that is the only drilling of technique being done.

[steve_langford]

http://cagewarriors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39065 ;)

[rjd]

Do your self a favour bud find a decent MMA gym loads about nowadays if you wanted to buy a car you wouldent go to a a tyre shop as thats just a part of what makes up a car......., Most MMA gyms have lessons in all the arts you will need to compete in MMA world wide from an MMA perspective!.
I will advocate training BJJ with a Gi to start off as it will bring on your ground 150% faster IMO than just training NoGi

[MikeyL]

Good answer rob... I forgot ju jitsu involved all those crappy wrist grab shit, which doesnt work.

At my gym i just go over mma shit like takedowns, submissions that actually do work LOL.

Thats a bite like karate in a way, a complete waste of time.
I knew someone who was brown belt karate, and was a complete puff :/.

Tell that to GSP or Machida.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[piratebrido]

Everytime you guys slag off wrist locks I cry a little. I've tapped to a few now, bloody hate them!

[Rob T]

Everytime you guys slag off wrist locks I cry a little. I've tapped to a few now, bloody hate them!

No one is slagging off wrist locks here.

[pauljono1120]

Exactly what I was thinking, haha. :D

[vileniall]

paul should you really be giving advice to people when you dont know shit yourself???

[markjitsu]

Thanks Paul and Rob youv reasured me alot and btw Rob i am doing some wrist grabs because im a low belt right now but there are black belts there that show me how to exicute a good throws and and armbars properly so im gonna stick with JJJ for now and then throw in another martial art later:D
Thanks
Gareth

ditch the traditional jits completely and do bjj instead.
if you don't, you'll regret it big time later on, or just live in denial.

[Rob T]

Thanks Paul and Rob youv reasured me alot and btw Rob i am doing some wrist grabs because im a low belt right now but there are black belts there that show me how to exicute a good throws and and armbars properly so im gonna stick with JJJ for now and then throw in another martial art later:D
Thanks
Gareth

Do you spar at 100%?

[Jogs D]

Markjitsu has wrist-locked the correct....

[Soldmysoulforabeer]

If you wanna gouge out peoples eyes take up Rugby.

[Jamie Taylor]

paul should you really be giving advice to people when you dont know shit yourself???

The best thing I have heard on here in months.

Paul seriously you really should think before you post. 90% of your posts recently have been utter shite.

[Kaiser Soze]

PLain and simply NO!

[pauljono1120]

Yeah I guess, I don't read most of the time... I said do Ju jitsu, then I said most of it doesnt work, obviously doesnt make sense....

When he said that i was thinking the ju jitsu I do, just mainly submissions in MMA, but if he does all that other fancy stuff, then it isn't a good idea...>.>

I know gazza, speak to him on MSN often, hes only 14 and the gyms near him are a little expensive, so he has to make do with what he can get.

[Jogs D]

If money is an issue then there's always the option of Boxing and/or Judo.....

Both very accesible fighting sports, cheap and brutally effective in a self-defence situation....

[Gazza]

lol i see there are alot of diffrent opinions here about trad JJ but like paul said the only gym iv found is one called team ryu and it costs about £60 month i ahve tryed boxing but everyone there was complete assholes and they always picked on the new person so i though f**k it and left so all i have left is kick boxing and JJ so far im gonna check out kick boxing in a couple of months time once iv have got settled into JJ because even though it does some "fancy wrist grabs" as paul puts it :D it also teach alot of key move like throws, armbars, triangles and other ground work and btw no my sensai does not teach eye pokes ;D

[Rob T]

lol i see there are alot of diffrent opinions here about trad JJ but like paul said the only gym iv found is one called team ryu and it costs about £60 month i ahve tryed boxing but everyone there was complete assholes and they always picked on the new person so i though f**k it and left so all i have left is kick boxing and JJ so far im gonna check out kick boxing in a couple of months time once iv have got settled into JJ because even though it does some "fancy wrist grabs" as paul puts it :D it also teach alot of key move like throws, armbars, triangles and other ground work and btw no my sensai does not teach eye pokes ;D

Do you spar though?

Because you can learn the technique as many times as you want, it's entirely different when someone is resisting 100% and trying to attack you 100% at the same time.

[Gazza]

yes we do spar but not very much even though when im practiceing move i tell my oponent to resist as much as he can so its a big challenge for my sinse i train with adults

[mathematist]

so what you think about machida? He's karate no?

[shakus maximus]

whether Trad jujutsu is shit or not depends on the instructor
no different to any other martial art.
ive been training JJJ for seven + years and train only effective techniques. the prob is there are some right shite out there that give the rest of us a bad name.
i train mma and bjj but still get up to ross Ianacarro as often as i can

(p.s. my guys all spar 100% as part of the syllabus and grading system for JJJ.)

[IranianWarMachine]

standing armbar and an uchi mata into a inverted armbar ain't to shabby but limited practicality and no rolling whatsoever i remeber where i train kickboxing they do aikido and jj, and they did grappling, i had a roll and i'm a white belt in bjj but decent wrestling and i was mauling jj black belts, but some guys there doing small joint manipulation and even shit like biting and sticking fingers down throats!

[Gazza]

well atleast i know now why trad JJ has a bad name my gym dosnt teach crap like pokes and stuff it teachs stuff that atuly works like armbars, triangles and figure 4 locks
also various chokes and throws

[Rob T]

Trad JJ and karate are the same, started off as genuinely good arts (ages ago) but now the majority of places teaching it are doing so just to make money, or to act tough. There are good schools around, but there are lots of utterly shit ones.

[The Natural]

so what you think about machida? He's karate no?

originally yes..

but his style is a far cry from traditional karate now..

he still maintains some of his karate..such as stance and some of attacks

but his stand up has been very effectively mixed with a sublime counter attacking strategy, Muay thai and greco/freestyle wrestling..

[Gazza]

well Rob when i asked my sensai he said the type of my JJ is a very traditonal(nice and flowing movements) with practical(very raw i guess)

[Sir Tapsalot]

They all say that their style of JJ is traditional. Fact is though is that the majority of the real traditional styles died in Japan a long time ago, and what we have now are a few remnants that have managed to survive, but in most cases you'll run into a mishmash of Judo, Aikido and Karate, with a few weapons forms thrown in for good measure. Read the history of Judo to see the demise of Ju Jitsu in 19th Century Japan

[Gazza]

well if i can find a saturday job i may get a mebership and join team ryu gym who teah BJJ mauy thai and MMA i can go every day accept saturday who thinks its a good deal for £60 a month?

[Sir Tapsalot]

Is that Team Ryu in Witham? If so, I think they're under Braulio for BJJ, so that's as legit as you can get. So £60 per month sounds pretty good

[Gazza]

Is that Team Ryu in Witham? If so, I think they're under Braulio for BJJ, so that's as legit as you can get. So £60 per month sounds pretty good

yes it is in witham all i gotta do now is persuade my dad also i ahve to find out if they will take on a 14 year old ;)

[effect21]

I had to register just to comment on this:

I previously trained in Judo and traditional Ju-Jitsu for 5 years.

I've recently been training in BJJ.

I would definately not use Judo or BJJ as self-defence / in a street fight, unless I had to.... We must not forget that they are sports with no striking. For example, would you pull guard on the street with concrete underneath you? Where the guy can smash your head off the floor and bite you. Also, how do you know his mates are not around the corner waiting to stamp on your head?

Even with MMA we have an enclosed, controlled environment with a referee, rules, gloves, gum-shield etc. There are some nasty people on the streets.

I think the best policy is to get the first strike in and get the f*ck out of there..... You don't know what weapons the guy is carrying, how many people are with him etc....

As for Traditional Ju-Jitsu, it definately does depend on the instructer and the club. For example, the club I went to mixed up some great techniques and it was bloody hard to move up in grades, for example I completed 3 belts in 5 years.....

As with all martial arts take from them what you find useful and will help you with your own skill-set.

Sorry for all the waffle, just had to get this off my chest!!

[Rob T]

lol... we are all glad you got that off your chest.

[pauljono1120]

Effect, would you pull guard on the grass if you knew he was by himself and had no weapons?

[Jogs D]

I had to register just to comment on this:

I previously trained in Judo and traditional Ju-Jitsu for 5 years.

I've recently been training in BJJ.

I would definately not use Judo or BJJ as self-defence / in a street fight, unless I had to.... We must not forget that they are sports with no striking. For example, would you pull guard on the street with concrete underneath you? Where the guy can smash your head off the floor and bite you. Also, how do you know his mates are not around the corner waiting to stamp on your head?

Even with MMA we have an enclosed, controlled environment with a referee, rules, gloves, gum-shield etc. There are some nasty people on the streets.

I think the best policy is to get the first strike in and get the f*ck out of there..... You don't know what weapons the guy is carrying, how many people are with him etc....

As for Traditional Ju-Jitsu, it definately does depend on the instructer and the club. For example, the club I went to mixed up some great techniques and it was bloody hard to move up in grades, for example I completed 3 belts in 5 years.....

As with all martial arts take from them what you find useful and will help you with your own skill-set.

Sorry for all the waffle, just had to get this off my chest!!

I have used BJJ in situations 'outside the dojo' to great effect - there's more to BJJ than just pulling guard....

I agree with getting the first strike in - I am a firm believer of Geoff Thompson's Fence work / Pre-emptive striking.... However, if after your pre-emptive strikes your opponent is still standing you're in a fight - that's where MMA training comes into it's own....

I also know Judo guys who have used their skills in the street and slammed their opponents into the ground and ended the fight... Same with Boxers/Thai Boxers etc....

The point is what you wouldn't use in a fight ie. BJJ/Judo works superbly for others... At the end of the day it's down to the individual making their own art work in a real situation...

[pauljono1120]

What would happen if you got in a fight, but didnt start it.. and broke someones arm with an arm bar or made them pass out with a rear naked or a triangle?

Would it be fine as it was self defence, or would you get done for assault?

I never fight due to the fact, if anyone falls and bangs there head, you could get arrested for assault or even murder.. :/
Also im a puff. :D

[Jogs D]

What would happen if you got in a fight, but didnt start it.. and broke someones arm with an arm bar or made them pass out with a rear naked or a triangle?

Would it be fine as it was self defence, or would you get done for assault?

I never fight due to the fact, if anyone falls and bangs there head, you could get arrested for assault or even murder.. :/
Also im a puff. :D

Regarding the law - as I understand, it all comes down to one thing - reasonable behaviour..... Pre-emptive striking is legal if you were genuinely in fear of your safety and you threw a single punch and knocked the guy out that theoreticall would be seen as reasonable, if you could prove you were in fear of your safety...

If a confrontation became extremely violent and the attacker was relentlessly attacking you and you RNC'ed him unconscious, that could be deemed reasonable behaviour as there was no doubt the attacker was beating the shit out of you and you were fighting for your survival.... However, if some extremely drunk dude accidently bumped into you and you RNC'ed him unconscious, followed by armbarring both his arms and heel-hooking both legs that is pretty unreasonable....

The law and self-defence is a very grey area and much of it is down to what is said rather than what actually happened, if you know what I mean.....

[Rob T]

It's based on the word of the law as Jogs D has said, but the ultimate decision on guilt is down to a jury and punishment down to a judge.

[effect21]

I have used BJJ in situations 'outside the dojo' to great effect - there's more to BJJ than just pulling guard....

I agree with getting the first strike in - I am a firm believer of Geoff Thompson's Fence work / Pre-emptive striking.... However, if after your pre-emptive strikes your opponent is still standing you're in a fight - that's where MMA training comes into it's own....

I also know Judo guys who have used their skills in the street and slammed their opponents into the ground and ended the fight... Same with Boxers/Thai Boxers etc....

The point is what you wouldn't use in a fight ie. BJJ/Judo works superbly for others... At the end of the day it's down to the individual making their own art work in a real situation...

What a great post......

I've also done some scenarios with Geoff Thompson's Fence work and I'm a firm believer also. The great difficulty is assessing the situation you are in and acting fast enough and at the right time.

If you can avoid a street fight in this day and age then that's probably the best method.....

[MikeyL]

In the eyes of the law self defence come s down to 'doing enough to get away'

[pauljono1120]

I dont think they realise if you idk, push them over to "get away" they will only come running back at you with punches, so its best to finish them!

[MikeyL]

mate this isnt fucking mortal kombat, these days your more likly to get stabbed or have have 4 of their hard mates jump in and stove your head in while your 'snapping his arm'.

[Rob T]

I dont think they realise if you idk, push them over to "get away" they will only come running back at you with punches, so its best to finish them!

You seriously don't think a jury would be able to take that into account?

I am pretty confident if some crazy guy attacked me full out and I broke his arms, I would be ok on self defence grounds.

[Yak]

and anyway who gives a shit.... if i am attacked the last thing I am worried about is the law...I want to protect myself and whoever I am with - a simple survival instinct - the old saying "better be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is very appropriate here

and mostly its the trad MA schools who bat on about the law and reasonable force blah blah as they dont actually fight / spar etc


im far more worried about getting seriously injured / stabbed / slashed / killed if in a streetfight than disecting the legalality of whether I knee the attacker in a 'reasonable' way