Interested Parties

[David Swann]

On a serious note, without threads on who likes Boobies and ring or cage. If you are serious and keen to develop and be a part of the Governing body/Afilliation for UK MMA can you please add your name below or say that you are interested.

Please only comment if you would like to be a part of this, it has to start somewhere. From the list we can discuss plans openly- meet as a community and discuss openly how this could and can operate.

I think what ever is spoken about should be minuted and shared for all to have their say, this will be for UK MMA, by UK MMA.





I am in. :D

[Knuckleup]

On a serious note, without threads on who likes Boobies and ring or cage. If you are serious and keen to develop and be a part of the Governing body/Afilliation for UK MMA can you please add your name below or say that you are interested.

Please only comment if you would like to be a part of this, it has to start somewhere. From the list we can discuss plans openly- meet as a community and discuss openly how this could and can operate.

I think what ever is spoken about should be minuted and shared for all to have their say, this will be for UK MMA, by UK MMA.




I am in. :D


definately count me in, lets get this moving in the right direction finally. i look forward to getting together with everyone who thinks the same.

Matt
knuckleup

[mickholdaway]

Prokumite is in.

[MMAlien]

I'm not a promoter but whatever i can do to help this move forward i will. I'm in!

[iandean]

Although i think the governing body should be separate from promoters and high profile individuals, i know CW/WP will be in there to help !

[hurricane]

would love to help in any way

[MMAlien]

To get the ball rolling i think that there needs to be a figurehead, someone who is well respected within the UK MMA scene that is also a nuteral party. Someone who has strong links with all the big players. We need to elect someone that all the promoters will listen too and agree to sign up to the governing body.

Someone like Ian Freeman or Gary Turner. Or both?

That person could travel the length and breath of the UK and get all the promoters to sign up.

[Plasticpaddy]

I'm in. As I said in a previous post getting people/organisations with various personal/political agendas to work together is what I do. Glad to help in anyway.

[David Swann]

There is no need to travel the country Ricky. We need to establish the interested parties first, then devise the structure for the body, our legislation, terms & conditions and then we can ask for promoters to sign up. (plus lots more)

[iandean]

Trouble with bringing in a "big name" from the sport to head the commission is the baggage they have. As anyone who has been in the sport for longer than 5 minutes will have haters and would of probably upset someone or has links to an individual or organisation which could be questioned. e.g. i would have questions about Gary Turner heading the commission cos of his previous links with Cage Rage / ProElite and if he is still maanged / represented by a sports agent or agency .
(No offence Gary, i'm just being honest)

I think people could certain act as advisor or be proactive in selling the sport to the media. But i think to head an organisation you really have to be impartial and beyond reproach.

Also someone is gonna have to go down Harvey Nicks and meet up with the UFC. As a commission is pointless without the support of the UFC UK office and also Marc Ratner who is probably the most valuable friend supporters of MMA regulation have.

[MMAlien]

There is no need to travel the country Ricky. We need to establish the interested parties first, then devise the structure for the body, our legislation, terms & conditions and then we can ask for promoters to sign up. (plus lots more)

true! i got a feeling some promotions are too comfortable where they are right now and wont sign up though......

[mickholdaway]

To get the ball rolling i think that there needs to be a figurehead, someone who is well respected within the UK MMA scene that is also a nuteral party. Someone who has strong links with all the big players. We need to elect someone that all the promoters will listen too and agree to sign up to the governing body.

Someone like Ian Freeman or Gary Turner. Or both?

That person could travel the length and breath of the UK and get all the promoters to sign up.

I think Mc6pack has earned that position and that he has so far done good and still working behind the scenes. I think that a committee should be a representation of all factions of the fraternity. After all every sector will be affected. As for a figure head i disagree.

[sweenytodd]

Glad this has finally started.
Can only be a good thing.

[Stumac]

For the last 18 months or so I have looked at MMA governing bodies in Scotland. Mainly because of problems getting suitable venues, the problem being that most local authorities do not want MMA in the venues they control and they control most of the best venues.

The responce you get from councils is they will not allow MMA until it has a governing body and is recognised by Sports Scotland, this sounds easy enough but its not.
To be recognised by Sport Scotland a governing body must represent the majority of clubs/gyms/teams.
The govening body must be established for at least 2 years prior to any application being submitted.

There are a number of other criteria that you must meet as well but the 2 above are the main ones. I dont know what the situation is in the rest of the UK but I would imagine it is something similar.
I am more than happy to help in any way I can.

[ReD_mIst]

I'm in and I am happy to do whatever is needed, within the constraints of the time I have avilable.

At present, I don't think we have much.... first off, we need to agree what our goals are, both long term and shorter term. If we don't really define what we are after, we stand little chance of getting there.

Once we have a clear and defined goal, we can then work out what we need to do and who we need to talk to, in order to get us there.

We also want to make sure we pace this properly. So people aren't running off doing stuff.

I'd alos like to suggest that there is a 'public' facing team for this. So 5 or so individuals who are the point of communication and contact. Anymore will make for chaos. There can be more behind the scenes.

So let's start. What is our LONG TERM goal?... need to be S.M.A.R.T. (if you don't know what that is, get some back issues of MMA Unlimited :))

[CraigSt.Clair]

Whatever help I can give I will (but I am not a fighter, promoter etc) but if theres help i can give I'm in :)

[kagemusha]

TNA would like to be an active and committed part of this project. As a manager working with promotions and athletes worldwide I am in a great position to how this would benefit the fighter and promoters, third parties and most importantly the sport.

[weepete]

very interested
Peter Lavery
Kyoujin
Belfast

[caged steel]

Any support I can give, I will. This is something all of us have been wanting for a good few years. If it is acheivable then it can only benefit everyone. As I have stated many times regulation and co-operation is the way forward.

[Jak-TapouT-]

I'm not a promoter, so probably hve very little to add. But you have my support and anything i can give.

I'm in

[SWM]

I am neither a fighter or a promoter (but I do train).

I would be happy to write letters and/or press releases and do any other secretarial work.

I feel that well written correspondence would give the effort a more professional appearance and I could lessen the workload of others whose experience is more gainfully applied elsewhere.

Simon

[Rich Austin]

I would be happy to write letters and/or press releases and do any other secretarial work.

FLUFFING?



.

[Gerrysea]

Well done Mc6pack, it appears that you’ve got this train rollin’ mate.

I am not a fighter or promoter, just a fan who enjoys MMW and is keen to see this project succeed. I’m retired so can offer my time; maybe I can be of some help with any areas of administration? If I can be of any help to you at all, PM me and I’ll be pleased to do so.

[kvg]

Hi
Yea i`interested in anything that will promote MMA in a positive way :D

Keith Gililand
www.martialartsunlimited.net

[Leigh]

I think regulation would be great and would be happy to help but unless someone needs trolling, I'm not sure how much input I can add

Dale Adams did it before with BAMMA. He did a lot of what has been discussed here - he had a panel of people from the UK MMA scene and would vote on different issues. However noone (aside from his Ultimate Combat) bothered getting regulated and I think that might be one of the big hurdles - convincing promoters that regulation is important

I think bringing in Dale/Laura, or at least talking to them would be a good idea, although I know a lot of people feel that maybe bridges have been burned

[ReD_mIst]

Speaking to Dale/Laura is a reasonable idea. BAMMA did have potential and actually both them have got some solid experieince. I guess at the moment they have no ties to a promotion....so independant

[Stumac]

Speaking to Dale/Laura is a reasonable idea. BAMMA did have potential and actually both them have got some solid experieince. I guess at the moment they have no ties to a promotion....so independant

Was BAMMA not a promotion?
IMO a governing body should be independent from promoters/promotions, if they put on thier own shows then they are not.

A governing body should be there to enable it's membership to compete on an equal basis with each other, with any profit coming from sanction's etc going back into the sport at grass roots level. If a governing body holds it's own shows they are promoters.

[ReD_mIst]

No, the original BAMMA was a governing body of sorts. It goverened Ultimate Combat and also stamped its approval on equipment, etc. On the downside, it was run by the promoters of UC...

Of course the name BAMMA was then stolen by unscrupulous types as a name for their unique event, which they stole the idea from the BFC...

[Stumac]

No, the original BAMMA was a governing body of sorts. It goverened Ultimate Combat and also stamped its approval on equipment, etc. On the downside, it was run by the promoters of UC...

Of course the name BAMMA was then stolen by unscrupulous types as a name for their unique event, which they stole the idea from the BFC...

I wasnt to sure of the in's and out's but I thought BAMMA appeared very quickly, to quick to have gone through all the required red tape to be an acceptable (to local authorities) governing body.

[ReD_mIst]

You are getting confused with the BAMMA's.

1. BAMMA 1 (circa 2002-2005) - this was a governing body of sorts, set up by Dale Adams, who was the promoter of Ultimate Combat and also owns MMA Universe. The only shows it governed was UC and alos the Open Combat Trials. It's also approved some gear.. mainly the Rogue stuff, which was again Dale Adams. So although it was a step in the right direction, the only people it governed was Dale's promotions and goods.

2. BAMMA 2 (2009) - This BAMMA was the name of a promotion that was essential stolen from the BFC idea. Not sure why they took the name BAMMA, but a few of the more knowledgable people wondered if it was connected to the original BAMMA and Dale Adams. I don't believe it is/was

If the second BAMMA had an ounce of originality, they would of called it something else... BFC for example... hold on, that was already taken too.

[Stumac]

The World Kickboxing Association (Scotland) are including MMA in their Scottish open championships this year for the first time. The tournament will be held on the 19th and 20th September in Airdrie Scotland. The WKA (Scotland) are seeking Sport Scotland recgonition for the combat sport's they represent at amateur level and are willing to represent MMA if this is acceptable to the clubs and gyms in Scotland. The WKA are not proposing to take over MMA before anyone jumps at that conclusion, what they are trying to do is represent the sport at amateur level (which means unpaid). If the tournament is a success and is supported by the majority of clubs and gym's they (WKA) will assist in the set up of an independant MMA representitive body franchised to the WKA if that is what the clubs want.

I have been working with the president of the WKA (Scotland) on this for sometime now and I think it is a good opertunity to get things moving in the right direction. The body will be set up in such a way that the members ie fighters, coaches, promoters and officials all have an equal say in the set up and running.

This was not supposed to be released until next week, but I think it may have a bearing on what is being discussed here.

Just for the record I am not a member or official of the WKA, I have just found myself in a position to help all parties concerned. I put this in as the WKA president and I have the same name but are not related.

For further information PM me.

Stuart Allan (MC)

[ReD_mIst]

It would certainly make sense speaking to the WKA about perhaps trying to extend that in to the rest of the UK.

It may make much more sense to approach this from an amateur level initially. If, in conjunction with WKA, we can get recognition and governance for the amateur sport, it will make the professional governance easier to establish

[Stumac]

The WKA in the rest of the UK are aware of this and will be looking at Scotland with a great deal of interest.

The only way for a GB to gain recognition from councils etc is to be a representitive of a recognised sport, (please can someone tell me what the English equivelant to Sport Scotland is). This can only be done at amateur level, the GB must hold championships for amateurs. When this is in position then the GB can sanction titles, fights etc.

If the GB is newly set up then it takes 2 years for recognition. It's not as simple as everyone getting toghether and agreeing the rules, you must meet all the criteria, thing's like police disclosure for officials, child protection officials, the active promotion of your sport at amateur level.

[ferret]

Very interested in assisting getting the governing body off the ground. I would really be keen in assisting with judging and reffing guidelines. I have been trying to get in to this type of work for a while there doesn't seem to be any guidelines on a defined route into this. It just seems to be based on who you know and previous experience in MMA anything competetive I have done is traditional stuff not MMA.

[iandean]

*shudders at the thought of a kickboxing organisation regulating MMA in the UK*

[ReD_mIst]

Great posts Stumac.

I don't think there is an English Sports council, there is UK Sport - http://www.uksport.gov.uk/ - which I guess would cover Scotland too.

[ReD_mIst]

*shudders at the thought of a kickboxing organisation regulating MMA in the UK*

tbh, I don't share the same concerns. Fact is, it will give MMA a route in and therefore should be considered

[iandean]

Having been to MMA events that have been run or "sanctioned" by kickboxing organisations, i would respectfully disagree with you

[Stumac]

*shudders at the thought of a kickboxing organisation regulating MMA in the UK*

The WKA have franchises already in North America which represent MMA.

They are in aposition to do somethime now not two years from now when it may be to late, the list of venues willing to hold MMA shows is shrinking and its only a mater of time before some local authoritie try ban it all together.

I have found that the people I have been dealing with at the WKA are dedicated to martial art's of all kinds, but more importantly for me they recognise all other GB's, so if you are a WKA member they do not have a problem with you fighting on a show sanctioned by another GB and any insurance you have with them is still valid if the show is sanctioned.

If you do not like the body that represents you then you have three choices
1/ Put up with it.
2/ Leave and join something else, if there is anything else.
3/ This is my favorite change the GB from the inside so that they represent you the way they are supposed to.

If things go as planned then the WKA will not regulate MMA in Scotland they will assist the set up of a representitive body, which will be franchised by the WKA. This means that the MMA membership are the only ones able to decide what happens with MMA.

[Stumac]

Having been to MMA events that have been run or "sanctioned" by kickboxing organisations, i would respectfully disagree with you

Can you give some examples of your concerns

[iandean]

So basically joining up with the WKA will give them unprecedented power to control the scene even though Kickboxing orgs have a terrible track record here in the UK.

Whilst also joining the WKA is no different from a few UK MMA shows coming together under a banner...that's say BAMMA and all of a sudden saying we are the governing body.

The governing body has to come from outside the sport(s)

[ReD_mIst]

Ian, leaping ahead a bit mate.... I have suggested speaking with them... not signing a contract in blood!

[fishface]

Put me down on the list for helpers, I'll be happy to spread the word to the media outlets I write for; just PM me on here for a lengthier chat.

F

[iandean]

Can you give some examples of your concerns

Golden Belt have sanctioned shows e.g Fight First (remember that anyone)

Plus i've been to another event sanctioned by them and the referees just didn't know jack about MMA rules whilst lecturing me on Heath and Safety (which i thought was nice)

Plus i have seen them at other events and was just embarrassed

Plus i lost count at how many micky mouse KB shows do MMA fights then don''t record the results

And to be fair Kickboxing shows in this country are mostly way behind MMA events in production and professionalism (although i know there are exceptions)

Plus if you ever go on AX, you will see what a sorry state of affairs Kickboxing is in in this country (both Thai and the shiney pants kind)

[Stumac]

So basically joining up with the WKA will give them unprecedented power to control the scene even though Kickboxing orgs have a terrible track record here in the UK.

Whilst also joining the WKA is no different from a few UK MMA shows coming together under a banner...that's say BAMMA and all of a sudden saying we are the governing body.

The governing body has to come from outside the sport(s)

I dont see where joining up with the WKA gives them unpresidented power to control the sport. I have stated that the deal that is currently on the table for MMA gym's in Scotland is to accept the help of the WKA in setting up a rep body.

The differance between shows coming together and calling them selves a GB and a WKA franchised rep body is the shows are promotions and regardless of how well they get on they are competeing with one another for the fan's buck. The rep body as proposed will not hold any for profit show's but will assist where required the MMA members, this includes fighters gym's and promoters.

What outside body is out there at the moment that is willing to run a not for profit GB.

[Mc6pack]

I cant really see how it would harm our cause if we were to affliliate with WFK in the future, aslong as they themselves are building a good reputation.

[Stumac]

Golden Belt have sanctioned shows e.g Fight First (remember that anyone)

Plus i've been to another event sanctioned by them and the referees just didn't know jack about MMA rules whilst lecturing me on Heath and Safety (which i thought was nice)

Plus i have seen them at other events and was just embarrassed

Plus i lost count at how many micky mouse KB shows do MMA fights then don''t record the results

And to be fair Kickboxing shows in this country are mostly way behind MMA events in production and professionalism (although i know there are exceptions)

Plus if you ever go on AX, you will see what a sorry state of affairs Kickboxing is in in this country (both Thai and the shiney pants kind)

I can not comment on the shows that you have mentioned as I was not there but, MMA is new to the WKA (Scotland) and as such they would be looking for the existing promotions and gym's to take the lead in how the rep body is set up and what power they have. They would also want existing officials to come over to the rep body and do what they are doing at the moment only with a more uniform format and more accountabilty.

As far as the the profesional running of shows is concerned the WKA would not be running MMA show's it would be the same promoters running them for the same profits/loss under rules and regulations agreed by all. The only differance being that the Rep Body will be negotiating to get you into bigger better venues with increased capacity.

[Stumac]

To let you know where I am coming from.
I work as a ring announcer, this being split between MMA, MT and Kickboxing. I am not a member of the WKA or linked to any particular promotion.
I found out that MMA show's in Scotland struggle for venues because of the negative publicity the sport attracts in the media. I offered to help if I could, having worked with orginisations in the past that have come up against similar problems. I did not know what I was letting myself in for, but when you talk to council officials that respond to a request for a meeting with "sorry but I dont really fancy that sort of thing (MMA)" what do you do. I came to realise that MMA promoters are used to hearing "NO WAY" all the time and just moving on to the next venue, but thats not me. One thing all council officials have in common is they all have a boss so thats where I went. I am now negotiating with that council and other's to try and find some nutral ground. What is clear is that the ones that do not accept MMA now, never will unless it is regulated and recognised.

Long story short. I found myself in the middle of this, fair enough it was my own doing, but I am up for the fight. I think I have put a good deal together with the WKA (Scotland), a deal that I think the clubs and promoters should at least consider, I will not work with anyone in this situation that is only out to line their own pockets with out giving something back. The sport is what drives the head coach's that is for sure, most are not interested in the politics but the dedication I have seen over the last couple of years in MMA in the UK is increadible. What drives me is that I dont like to be told "NO WAY" by the people who's wages I pay, not without giving me a good reason and a chance to reply. I'm too old now to fight in the cage having found MMA to late, but I will put my suite on and fight with bureaucrats all day.
I am happy to do what I have been doing for the last year or so because I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, the only thing I ask is not to dismiss the work I and others have done without at least thinking it through. So you dont like kickboxing/ Mauy Thai/Boxing so what, if working with the WKA can help UK MMA then surely you can at least sit down and talk about it.

Going out now to get away from this computer.
Stu

[iandean]

I can not comment on the shows that you have mentioned as I was not there but, MMA is new to the WKA (Scotland) and as such they would be looking for the existing promotions and gym's to take the lead in how the rep body is set up and what power they have. They would also want existing officials to come over to the rep body and do what they are doing at the moment only with a more uniform format and more accountabilty.

As far as the the profesional running of shows is concerned the WKA would not be running MMA show's it would be the same promoters running them for the same profits/loss under rules and regulations agreed by all. The only differance being that the Rep Body will be negotiating to get you into bigger better venues with increased capacity.

Promoters don't need Reps negotiating with venues they need to be governed and regulated. And recognition will come from that

And again the WKA is no different to a bunch of UK MMA promoters sitting down and doing it themselves

governing body HAS to come from outside the box, the combat sports sphere. Existing combat sports players will not be good enough

[mighty mouse]

i think this is a f**KIN gud idea and would love to help in any way i can

[sugarshane]

I think Stumac has some very convincing points and to just right his idea off just because you don't fancy it or never thought of it....is folly.
the wka is totally diffrent to a bunch of promoters in it being;
independent and recognised.
oh aye?

[Mc6pack]

I think Stumac has some very convincing points and to just right his idea off just because you don't fancy it or never thought of it....is folly.
the wka is totally diffrent to a bunch of promoters in it being;
independent and recognised.
oh aye?

WKA are a kickboxing GB, we are an MMA GB, both combat sports, surely there is some lessons we can learn from WKA's current plight ?

[paul james]

Very pleased to see people trying to get behind this a push it forward. I will obviously give my support where I can.

I Have been involved as a promoter in MMA for 4-5 years now and I seen this come up many times and have sat round tables with other high profile people in the sport trying to establish a governing body - however we are still sat here mid way through 2009 without one...

The idea is great and I will support it however I do fear that this will vanish as it has in the past due to lack of funding and people not wanting to put their hand in their own pocket or work for nothing!!!!

(I hope I am wrong!!!)

[Stumac]

Promoters don't need Reps negotiating with venues they need to be governed and regulated. And recognition will come from that

And again the WKA is no different to a bunch of UK MMA promoters sitting down and doing it themselves

governing body HAS to come from outside the box, the combat sports sphere. Existing combat sports players will not be good enough

Any negotiating with venues would still be done by the promoters, it is not down to a rep body to run the business of any promoter. Maybe you dont have a problem in the areas you work in regarding the use of venues for MMA show's, if that is the case you are one of the few. A rep body would negotiate with local authorities and police etc to allow for the use of public venue's for MMA. Any rep body trying to do this would have to be involved with the regulation of the sport otherwise they will have no credibility, and will not get the attention of the authorities.

If all the promoters got together and formed a GB then I think it would be the best thing to happen in UK MMA, but lets face it this has been talked about for years and the chances of it happening are slim to none. I have spoken to many promoters and coach's etc and they all want GB but do not have the time to do it. Full time job, part time gym (hope it will be full time one day), fight team commitments, show promotion, oh and a full time family in there somewhere to, sound familiar.

I dont have a problem with anyone trying to take this sport forward be it a Governing body, a rep body or commision, but please tell me what outside body is going to come and do this and not want to make millions of the back of it. Personaly I would rather see the money being made by the fighters first and then think about paying others, after all without them we can all spend more time with our families. I am not what you would regard as a player in UK MMA if I was I think I would be insulted that you dont think the people involved in the sport in this country are "good enough" to look after their own business, that you think it has to come from "outside the box".

I dont mean this to sopund like a rant if it does sorry, but this has been talked about long enough, it is clear from what has been discussed over the course of the last week that there are people out there willng to give their time and commitment to helping protect and unite the sport in the UK. All I ask is you listen to what they have to say, in the end if it's not for you then that's ok, it wont have cost you anything.

Stu

[Mc6pack]

Very pleased to see people trying to get behind this a push it forward. I will obviously give my support where I can.

I Have been involved as a promoter in MMA for 4-5 years now and I seen this come up many times and have sat round tables with other high profile people in the sport trying to establish a governing body - however we are still sat here mid way through 2009 without one...

The idea is great and I will support it however I do fear that this will vanish as it has in the past due to lack of funding and people not wanting to put their hand in their own pocket or work for nothing!!!!

(I hope I am wrong!!!)

Great too have you onboard Paul, your experiences and views from a promoters stand point will serve us greatly.

[r-v]

Im in if i cant offer much but if at any point We the MMA community are raising funds to get this of the ground im more then happy to give a few houndred and quote me on that.

My only concern if we were to have a GB How easy is it for a here today gone tomo promoter staging a non license event etc like some toughman boxing events do.

but like i said im more then happy to contribute any way i can :)

[Shaolin Exile]

I've only skim read the first six pages so apologies if this has already been said..

Earlier on, someone mentioned Dale Adams's original BAMMA and kainer mentioned the need to get the UFC on board. I seem to remember that Dale and BAMMA were involved with setting up UFC 38 back in 2003 so getting Dale involved might be the best way to get UFC on board. Just a thought

[Gerrysea]

Flame away - My Blog on the Elliott / Saville fight and more 23/07/09:
Good to see a lively, intelligent (Ignorin’ the trolls) and positive debate on an old chestnut with some determined effort at starting to make some form of progress.

However, I have to admit to bein’ surprised and somewhat disappointed at seein’ what appears to be Marc Goddard’s sound advice …..……. bein’ so quickly pushed aside, if not ignored. To my mind his suggestions have great merit; I would imagine that the BBBoC has the wherewithal, background, expertise and administrative services and processes that would be needed, already in place and so avoid much of the research and learning curve pitfalls that would undoubtedly lie ahead and probably also the faces and personalities to open many necessary doors?

I know, I’m not a promoter or a fighter, just a fan, but it all seems to make sense to me, utilising the services and expertise that already exists but redirected into MMA, if they could be persuaded to work with UK MMA in that way. Would it not be possible to join forces with someone like Marc Ratner, Vice President of UFC Regulatory Affairs and add the weight of the UK MMA community in a combined effort to get the BBBoC interested, to bring their the experience, history, knowledge and logistics to the table and take the reins? Surely the benefits in doin’ it this way must make it worth considerin’, if not a try?

This is probably easy said and much more difficult to do, I know. But just my thoughts.
I previously posted a similar question (Above) within another thread, but assumed from the lack of response that such an idea was dead in the water?

[Frank Bowen WKMA]

Being involved in Kickboxing, Thaiboxing and MMA as a participant, trainer and promoter for many years and being the president of WKMA/BIKMA I have seen the issues and problems of groups trying to form a governing body before. Our group was actively involved in negotiation with the sports council together with BTBC, WKA, ISKA, BMTA, BKBU, SIMTA, WAKO and CKO some 12 years ago to form a governing body for Kickboxing and Thaiboxing, it was going well until two of the groups thought they were so above everybody else that they started to apply for separate recognition and were negotiating as individual groups behind the joint groups back obviously this ruined everybody’s chances.

Even though I promote Kickboxing as well as MMA I would suggest that MMA proceeds as a separate group. I would be most willing to get involved in any way I can to help our sport.

May I suggest that it's important that many of the top trainers get involved not just guys who are purely promoters who do not run clubs as by virtue of the beast their main objective is to make money out of the sport regardless of what they say. It was the people who did not coach or participate in the sport of Kickboxing who tried to gain recognition as individual groups. One association head purchased the association and was purely a business man, the other was on similar grounds neither was involved in the sport. Their aim was to further themselves not the sport.

Therefore I believe it needs to be a well rounded group consisting of top trainers, named fighters, promoters, referees/officials, medical officers, MMA website owners and people who have certain skills - legal, media etc, and the group needs to have national representation.

All the best

[The ZT Team]

Were happy to be a part of it...

Sol & ZT Fight Skool

[Gods of War]

We are in too. We are not promoters but we are a rapidly expanding gym with a growing portfolio of fighters and students and anything we can do to help, just let us know.

[boxingbrit]

I think its a great idea and if i can help as a retired fighter i would be happy to.

[Plasticpaddy]

Just a few thoughts from me.

As a first step it might be an idea to clarify:
1) What the objectives of the group are (obviously, as stated by just about everyone on here!)
2) Who the stakeholders will be, i.e everyone who will be impacted on by the group e.g fans, fighters, promotors, venues, councils, non-mma governing bodies etc etc
3) What resources and capabilities there are among those who have expressed an interest in helping.

Doing 2 and 3 first might be easier, at least then you know who you are going to be dealing with/have to consider, and who is available to plan & execute the group strategy and objectives and who can provide support in terms of time, expereince, logistics etc.
This will provide a clearer picture of the groups ability to fulfil whatever objectives it decides on, what gaps exist, what external/additional support will be needed etc etc. It wont be perfect, and it wont be what you end up with but it will be the first clear step in shaping the desire, willingness and expereince on offer into something tangible.
Then its just the simple matter of the group objectives to sort out ;-)

One thing I can guarantee is the longer it takes to make the first step, the less people will make it. If someone is prepared to step up and say they will act as the figure head for now, we should PM them our list of suggested stakeholders, individual skills (not full CVs, but bullet point proven skills and expereince and/or time/type of support commitments on say a weekly basis)
Then in a short period of time you have a figurehead for the group, a list of who its "customers" (for want of a better expression) will be, and the skills and time available to meet what ever objectives are agreed on.
On the objectives front, priortising stakeholders in order of importance, then the most important needs/goals to achieve with the most important stakeholders will give you an idea of what to focus on intially. bite sized chunks and all that. Getting some early wins, however small, will create a sense of momentum.

It might sound really basic, but I've watched great ideas die in business because of people getting caught up in "lottery dreamer syndrome" - argueing about what colour the Aston Martin is going to be before buying a ticket.

[mickholdaway]

Just a few thoughts from me.

As a first step it might be an idea to clarify:
1) What the objectives of the group are (obviously, as stated by just about everyone on here!)
2) Who the stakeholders will be, i.e everyone who will be impacted on by the group e.g fans, fighters, promotors, venues, councils, non-mma governing bodies etc etc
3) What resources and capabilities there are among those who have expressed an interest in helping.

Doing 2 and 3 first might be easier, at least then you know who you are going to be dealing with/have to consider, and who is available to plan & execute the group strategy and objectives and who can provide support in terms of time, expereince, logistics etc.
This will provide a clearer picture of the groups ability to fulfil whatever objectives it decides on, what gaps exist, what external/additional support will be needed etc etc. It wont be perfect, and it wont be what you end up with but it will be the first clear step in shaping the desire, willingness and expereince on offer into something tangible.
Then its just the simple matter of the group objectives to sort out ;-)

One thing I can guarantee is the longer it takes to make the first step, the less people will make it. If someone is prepared to step up and say they will act as the figure head for now, we should PM them our list of suggested stakeholders, individual skills (not full CVs, but bullet point proven skills and expereince and/or time/type of support commitments on say a weekly basis)
Then in a short period of time you have a figurehead for the group, a list of who its "customers" (for want of a better expression) will be, and the skills and time available to meet what ever objectives are agreed on.
On the objectives front, priortising stakeholders in order of importance, then the most important needs/goals to achieve with the most important stakeholders will give you an idea of what to focus on intially. bite sized chunks and all that. Getting some early wins, however small, will create a sense of momentum.

It might sound really basic, but I've watched great ideas die in business because of people getting caught up in "lottery dreamer syndrome" - argueing about what colour the Aston Martin is going to be before buying a ticket.

Good sound advice.

[Rich Austin]

any updates or a progress report?

[Naruto]

I'll do what I can to help.

I would think referees would be the best people to be responsible for the governing body with additional fighters/fans helping them.
This way alongside the governing body they can have loads of ref courses and training as part of it. open ended, but refs hold alot of responsibility so feel theyd be the best suitable people.

[trev01]

i think the best initial move would be with the referees, ie. agreeing on a standard set of rules / regulations and insist upon the promotion using them. Because without standardisation of rules i think any governing body would ultimately fail, a promoter has to feel some sort of benefit to joining any organisation otherwise what would be the point, if they couldnt get a referee without it then that might 'persude' them to use the governing body.





oh and change the descriptions:

junior: 3 x 3 minute rounds, no head shots (currently amateur and strictly for juniors)

Amateur: 3 x 4 minute rounds, head shot standing (currently semi pro)

Pro: 3 x 5 minute rounds, Full rules (currently differs between shows (elbows / knees mainly)



i myself as a referee would welcome any sort of move in this direction, and a governing body should not be run by a profit making promotion.
A respected, high profile referee such as marc goddard would be best suited to govern it and his wages would come from the contributions of the promotions.


trev

[DRATTLER MCVIPER]

Would be willing to help out in anyway possible with this 1 !

[payner]

Count Angrrr Management in, it is about time there was a Governing body to address issues that as promoters/fighters/managers etc need looking at & regulating.

Chris.

[ReD_mIst]

i think the best initial move would be with the referees, ie. agreeing on a standard set of rules / regulations and insist upon the promotion using them. Because without standardisation of rules i think any governing body would ultimately fail, a promoter has to feel some sort of benefit to joining any organisation otherwise what would be the point, if they couldnt get a referee without it then that might 'persude' them to use the governing body.





oh and change the descriptions:

junior: 3 x 3 minute rounds, no head shots (currently amateur and strictly for juniors)

Amateur: 3 x 4 minute rounds, head shot standing (currently semi pro)

Pro: 3 x 5 minute rounds, Full rules (currently differs between shows (elbows / knees mainly)



i myself as a referee would welcome any sort of move in this direction, and a governing body should not be run by a profit making promotion.
A respected, high profile referee such as marc goddard would be best suited to govern it and his wages would come from the contributions of the promotions.


trev

I WOULDNT support those rules. Junior and Pro I am fine with. Amateur should be the same as pro, with sparring gloves. i.e. there should still be GnP. I wouldn't object to the removal of twisting leg locks and spine locks, but not overly fussed. AM should be as close to Pro as possible...

[tomtailford]

Hello... I would be willing to help... could do any video work or promotion through the Fight Factory website.

I agree that a unified set of rules needs to be discussed. This needs discussion between fighters, promoters, referees... and probably other parties. (Maybe a new post to try and get a discussion going on unified rules?)

[payner]

Angrrr Management are IN, we will asist in anyway we can in a bid to promote the development og a governing body/council etc. I see this as a long term commitment from all interested parties, I also think short term it will be and or take up a lot of time & effort but long term will benefit the often misunderstood sport that is MMA.
Chris.

[cancoolers]

definately count me in, lets get this moving in the right direction finally. i look forward to getting together with everyone who thinks the same.

Matt
knuckleup


Very well put together post, something different I suppose, who would have ever thought about cow tipping?

__________________
Can coolers (http://www.drinkoutloud.com/cancoolers.html)

[simtex2009]

Hi all, a govening body "sounds" great for UK MMA, however what would you want from a govening body? If we could maybe get some ideas going on what we want and expect then maybe we could actually start. I'd love to be part of something like this. I think a person to head such an oganisation should be well informed on MMA however shouldn't really be involved as such. I can offer legal advice on issuses as my other is a barrister and would also love to help in any way possible and therefore would be willing to reserch any stumbling blocks that may arises.

[PHECTA]

From a medical point of veiw, we would be interested. We are State Registered paramedics and already provide event cover at MMA Events including pre-fight medicals etc.

regards

David

[Mad Dog]

I would be very interested.. sounds like a plan ;-)

[SpiritMMA]

As the owner of a promotion that is only in its infancy, I have found it very difficult to find an association that has set rules, guidelines and definitive guidelines as to what's classed as amateur and professional as well as rules etc..

I personally believe that a national association would be better for the sport and the fighters safety as well as giving stronger credibility.

As the sport is still quite new, especially when compared to other individual forms of martial arts; there are any obvious grey areas but I think that if the sport is to be taken seriously then an association which is recognized, formalized and has the backing of the UK promotions is the way forward.

If you need any support in this, I would be more than happy to assist in any way that I can.

Chris
Spirit MMA