The Triangle Choke

[DanCrase]

Ok, now though I know how to apply and set up (and escape, sometimes) a Triangle; there's something I've never truly understood, as elementary to some of you as it may seem, and this is;

Does it matter which side the trapped arm is, in relation to the angles of the legs? (seeing as one is flat against opponent and one is bent)

[piratebrido]

Ok, now though I know how to apply and set up (and escape, sometimes) a Triangle; there's something I've never truly understood, as elementary to some of you as it may seem, and this is;

Does it matter which side the trapped arm is, in relation to the angles of the legs? (seeing as one is flat against opponent and one is bent)

If I understand your question, the trapped arm should be across your body. Your leg is cutting off one side of the neck and their arm is the other, which means the arm should be crossed over to be effective.

A defense is to hide the trapped arm under their hip, which can give you enough space to breath somewhat and work an escape. Can still be forced to tap without the arm though, but it is much harder work for them.

Hope that makes sense.

[david5]

i don't understand your question

[vileniall]

he means does it matter which leg is cutting the neck.

for example will it work if the arm side leg is across and the neck side leg verticle.


yes it matters.

[pauljono1120]

I always like ... try and push an arm out, and which ever arm ive pushed out i put the leg across were the arm isnt, if that makes sense LOL.

(from bottom guard)

[piratebrido]

Your asking if this (http://www.johnpaulriley.com/Wrestling/jp_vs_shawn_2003_07_04/shawn_jp_triangle_choke_1.jpg) would work?

[DanCrase]

he means does it matter which leg is cutting the neck.

for example will it work if the arm side leg is across and the neck side leg verticle.


yes it matters.

Yeah; thats exactly what I was after, cheers mate :)

I didn't word it particularly well, I know.

[DanCrase]

Your asking if this (http://www.johnpaulriley.com/Wrestling/jp_vs_shawn_2003_07_04/shawn_jp_triangle_choke_1.jpg) would work?

...has that black dude got no pants on?

[pauljono1120]

LMAO! ...I dont think he has actually..

[piratebrido]

Aye, think it is from one of those gay wrestling sites. If you google image triangle choke it pops up!

[DanCrase]

Aye, think it is from one of those gay wrestling sites. If you google image triangle choke it pops up!

I'll fuckin bet it does!

[piratebrido]

I'll fuckin bet it does!

Hahaha. Don't know what would be worse, the choke or the poke in the eye. :p

[Rob T]

It does matter, but it does work both ways... you just have to use different pressure and angle. The standard version (i.e. your legs should be crossed on the side of the trapped arm) is much easier to finish.

[david5]

i am finishing people with the leg reversal triangle a lot at the moment, cause my knee is fucked and i can only triangle my legs one direction. like rob says, it's possible but the pressure is different

[DanCrase]

Thats awesome, it's been bugging me for awhile but I didnt wanna bring it up in class and look more of a tool than I already do!

[pauljono1120]

I fuck mine up alot of the time and end up falling onto my side and taking lik 5mins to make them tap..

Maybe i got the pressure or w/e wrong.

[The Natural]

A defense is to hide the trapped arm under their hip, which can give you enough space to breath somewhat and work an escape. Can still be forced to tap without the arm though, but it is much harder work for them.


Never liked this type of strategy..the reason being is because if ur opponent is of a good level he will attempt the omaplata..fig 4..u will then attempt an escape or start tapping..if u do escape then he may get top control and put u in a shitty position..

but if u have game u may escape skillfully and end up in top guard..and pass his guard...

this probabally means nothing to anyone else..ha,ha!!

[DanCrase]

Never liked this type of strategy..the reason being is because if ur opponent is of a good level he will attempt the omaplata..fig 4..u will then attempt an escape or start tapping..if u do escape then he may get top control and put u in a shitty position..

but if u have game u may escape skillfully and end up in top guard..and pass his guard...

this probabally means nothing to anyone else..ha,ha!!

I know where you're coming from; at first this was the escape I always instinctively tried, and I was caught in an omoplata many times

[piratebrido]

That's the name of the game. Never been omoplata'd myself from that position, but I can see how it could happen. Finding out what works for you is the fun part.

[The Natural]

That's the name of the game. Never been omoplata'd myself from that position, but I can see how it could happen. Finding out what works for you is the fun part.

No one has ever attempted it? Or u have never been caught by it?

you must be very strong..or simply alot stronger than ur opponents if the latter is the case!!:D

if this is the case i would have to tell ur training partners to disrespect the feet/legs when spinning/going for an omaplata!!:cool: :D

[FlameBoy]

doing the trinagle the wrong way - nah nah nah.

lets start with it being done the correct way. His right arm in across the body. your right leg over the back of his neck.

IF, he defends by putting his arm into the omaplata position. You an reveres the leg position and go to what is called The Bolt -

voila -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIO0hRMnZHs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Egoogle%2Eco%2Euk%2Fvideo search%3Fq%3Dbjj%252Bbolt%2B%2B%26hl%3Den%26emb%3D 0%26aq%3Df&feature=player_embedded#t=54

[Luke]

he means does it matter which leg is cutting the neck.

for example will it work if the arm side leg is across and the neck side leg verticle.


yes it matters.

Spoken by the true enlightened triangle expert :D

[david5]

god i hate submissions 101

[Malcontent]

god i hate submissions 101

Why?

I think it's great.

[david5]

Why?

I think it's great.

god, i wouldn't know where to start!

[Malcontent]

But what's the issue with it?

Are the techniques poor?

What would be a good submission youtube channel?

[diver]

I've read a lot of people slagging of submissions 101, i never know why either?

[SDR]

BJJ technique actually working relies on the details. Submissions 101 misses out all of the important details on everything because the guy is shit and isn't even Blue Belt standard (although was recently awarded a Blue Belt).

[david5]

BJJ technique actually working relies on the details. Submissions 101 misses out all of the important details on everything because the guy is shit and isn't even Blue Belt standard (although was recently awarded a Blue Belt).

he bought that belt. basically his techniques suck balls, he just happens to put out a shitload of them

[xdanx]

They have been using keith owen recently who is a pedro sauer black belt.
some good stuff

[Rob T]

Just remembered that I used the reverse triangle twice in a comp at the start of the year. I have the video online too.

From about 2:50 onwards to attack a kimura and 3:40 onwards to transition to omoplata then sweep...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q32hP_-4wOA

[Stalkachu]

The BOLT lock and reverse triangles in general are kinda ineffective from that position, I find. At least if they have a relatively strong neck and good defensive posture. The Teepee, on the other hand, does work rather more often. And I will always take being omoplata'd over being triangled. How many times have you been tapped with an omoplata? I mean, really? Compared to a triangle, it's just not as dangerous, so I'll take the potential sweep over the sub every time.

Take care,

Stalks

[DanCrase]

The BOLT lock and reverse triangles in general are kinda ineffective from that position, I find. At least if they have a relatively strong neck and good defensive posture. The Teepee, on the other hand, does work rather more often. And I will always take being omoplata'd over being triangled. How many times have you been tapped with an omoplata? I mean, really? Compared to a triangle, it's just not as dangerous, so I'll take the potential sweep over the sub every time.

Take care,

Stalks

Though, I'd rather be choked out than have my shoulder snapped

[Rob T]

The BOLT lock and reverse triangles in general are kinda ineffective from that position, I find. At least if they have a relatively strong neck and good defensive posture. The Teepee, on the other hand, does work rather more often. And I will always take being omoplata'd over being triangled. How many times have you been tapped with an omoplata? I mean, really? Compared to a triangle, it's just not as dangerous, so I'll take the potential sweep over the sub every time.

Take care,

Stalks

Agreed on all points.

Braulio tapped me with an omoplata with my leg inside as well... :( haha

[IranianWarMachine]

if you watch one of the last espn, mma live shows, miguel torres does it, he just clasps his arms round the outside of his knee and pulls it towards his nose, it still attacks the corroted artirary, needed to finish.

[david5]

The BOLT lock and reverse triangles in general are kinda ineffective from that position, I find. At least if they have a relatively strong neck and good defensive posture. The Teepee, on the other hand, does work rather more often. And I will always take being omoplata'd over being triangled. How many times have you been tapped with an omoplata? I mean, really? Compared to a triangle, it's just not as dangerous, so I'll take the potential sweep over the sub every time.

Take care,

Stalks

i don't think they're ineffective, you just have to finish it differently to normal. i agree with the omoplata thing though, i love when pepole attack that cause my escapes from that are much better than from triangles

[Stalkachu]

I wouldn't say ineffective, I guess, but it's definitely a far lower percentage submission than a straight triangle. It does nicely set up a few more options (pressing armbar & kimura, primarily), but maybe I just have a strong neck, but I can't recall being tapped by a reverse triangle pretty much ever, whereas I have been tapped with normal triangles dozens of times.

Just my personal experience. ^_^

Take care,

Stalks

[david5]

yeh there's definitely more of a nack to it than the regular triangle.

do you find you don't get guillotined much either?

[Stalkachu]

Rarely. Usually only when it catches the windpipe, and then you're pretty much screwed either way. Just seizes up. Sniff. -_-

Take care,

Stalks

[piratebrido]

No one has ever attempted it? Or u have never been caught by it?

you must be very strong..or simply alot stronger than ur opponents if the latter is the case!!:D

if this is the case i would have to tell ur training partners to disrespect the feet/legs when spinning/going for an omaplata!!:cool: :D

I'm 120-odd kgs if that answers your question!

[The Natural]

I'm 120-odd kgs if that answers your question!

lol..that would be the reason y then!!

[TRIBULUS]

I'm no fan of submissions 101 either, I don't see why a white belt should be posting techniques on the internet when there's loads more qualified people out there. Some of the demonstrations are just plain horrible with so many incorrect details.

I also resent the fact that he wears a BJJ gi, demonstrates BJJ techniques and wears a TMA black belt.

If you want a laugh then check out his blue belt test where he gets thrust choked by a white belt inside his guard, then gets given his blue belt. Nice.

[sol_dave]

I'm no fan of submissions 101 either, I don't see why a white belt should be posting techniques on the internet when there's loads more qualified people out there. Some of the demonstrations are just plain horrible with so many incorrect details.

I also resent the fact that he wears a BJJ gi, demonstrates BJJ techniques and wears a TMA black belt.

If you want a laugh then check out his blue belt test where he gets thrust choked by a white belt inside his guard, then gets given his blue belt. Nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uBA1ic7Riw

lol

[piratebrido]

He claims to be a purple under Eddie Bravo. Is it not legit? Would be surprising since he does have quite a few video's with Bravo in them.

Ahhh...so getting belts under Eddie isn't qualified as BJJ. Kind of strange. Eye opening too. I would have throught a purple belt under Bravo should kill a white belt, gi or no gi. It's all a bit bizarre.

[sol_dave]

He claims to be a purple under Eddie Bravo. Is it not legit? Would be surprising since he does have quite a few video's of Eddie in them.

If you watch the video above, the sub talked about is just after the 4 min mark

I dont know anything about him, I just cant see any of the bluebelts down the gym ive recently started at tapping like that...

Video could be old aswell...

[Rob T]

That video of Ari Bolden is not old, it's within the last month I think. I like the bit where he gets a light knee to the face while under side-mount and stops then restarts in guard. lol.

He not only got a blue belt but got given 2 stripes on his belt at the end of the seminar too.

Eddie Bravo apparantly gives rank based on knowledge of "his system" rather than any other criteria.

[TRIBULUS]

Restarting from guard when the guy had side position is a good enough reason to fail the test IMO.

I don't agree with tests for belts either.

[Simon Hayes]

Ari Bolden is a fraud and a liar.

He is everything bad about this sport.

Shame on Eddie Bravo for giving him rank based on video.

Ari Bolden even continued his belt shopping ways by going to a Gi instructor and basically buying his blue belt,as can be seen by his 'test'.

He is a cock sucker and i have absolutely no respect for him or any instructors sanctioning his financial motivation for his progression through the ranks.

[piratebrido]

I don't agree with tests for belts either.

I agree with this.

[rjd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uBA1ic7Riw

anyone got this instructors email love a SEMINAR with him I think purple looks really fetching :rolleyes:

[Stalkachu]

I'm going to be a little strange and say that I personally think belt testing is a good idea. I don't believe you should PAY for it, but I believe when you're up for your blue, and even moreso after that, it's good to make the day particularly special and memorable. It also enforces a wide range of technical knowledge and limits (to a degree) people being one-trick ponies and forcing their way to the belt above by having a set syllabus of techniques even if you may not be great at using them all in sparring.

I like the rounds of hard sparring approach, rolling with your instructor at the end, and all that kind of thing. It IS a little TMA, where you get guys doing 200 pressups and 20 rounds of sparring with guys who let them win, then they get their black belt and say it was the hardest thing they ever did, but I don't think that's really a bad thing as long as it's real and people remember it for a long time.

But no, I'm not a fan of belt-whipping. Sorry. ^_^

Take care,

Stalks

[Leigh]

Thats awesome, it's been bugging me for awhile but I didnt wanna bring it up in class and look more of a tool than I already do!

Never be afraid to ask your instructor a question about technique. However, do say he is wrong or that the technique will not work - that is a quick route to "sparring"

The answer to your question is in technique fundamentals - for a strangle to work, you must cut off both arteries. Can you do that from the position you are describing? How about if you make adjustments, like changing the angle, the direction of pressure or putting an arm in?

[david5]

first thing i said about ari's belt testing video when i saw it on the underground, was about the knee. that alone proves to me the guy has no warrior spirit

[piratebrido]

So which purple belt is going over to smash?

[david5]

not required, white belt in blue gi smashed him

[piratebrido]

not required, white belt in blue gi smashed him

True. Just watched it again. Why would he put that online?! Does he not run his own club?

[TRIBULUS]

I'm going to be a little strange and say that I personally think belt testing is a good idea. I don't believe you should PAY for it, but I believe when you're up for your blue, and even moreso after that, it's good to make the day particularly special and memorable. It also enforces a wide range of technical knowledge and limits (to a degree) people being one-trick ponies and forcing their way to the belt above by having a set syllabus of techniques even if you may not be great at using them all in sparring.

I like the rounds of hard sparring approach, rolling with your instructor at the end, and all that kind of thing. It IS a little TMA, where you get guys doing 200 pressups and 20 rounds of sparring with guys who let them win, then they get their black belt and say it was the hardest thing they ever did, but I don't think that's really a bad thing as long as it's real and people remember it for a long time.

But no, I'm not a fan of belt-whipping. Sorry. ^_^

Take care,

Stalks

I worry that it's just another step on the road to becoming a TMA.

It is effectively a demonstration of kata, is no zhoo zhitsu fren.

[piratebrido]

I'm going to be a little strange and say that I personally think belt testing is a good idea. I don't believe you should PAY for it, but I believe when you're up for your blue, and even moreso after that, it's good to make the day particularly special and memorable. It also enforces a wide range of technical knowledge and limits (to a degree) people being one-trick ponies and forcing their way to the belt above by having a set syllabus of techniques even if you may not be great at using them all in sparring.

I like the rounds of hard sparring approach, rolling with your instructor at the end, and all that kind of thing. It IS a little TMA, where you get guys doing 200 pressups and 20 rounds of sparring with guys who let them win, then they get their black belt and say it was the hardest thing they ever did, but I don't think that's really a bad thing as long as it's real and people remember it for a long time.

But no, I'm not a fan of belt-whipping. Sorry. ^_^

Take care,

Stalks

I didn't grade or do push ups for my blue, but when I got my blue it was pretty special and memorable.

Felt more geniune than any grading I have ever done. I didn't just pass a pre set criteria to get the blue, but I had the skills to pay the bills. It's killed my will to grade in Judo. As much as I love Judo I just don't like gradings anymore. BJJ has shown me a far better way of doing it.

I think sub wrestling with no gradings is even better, but I like the Gi to much.

Saying that, I didn't feel I 'deserved' my blue when I got it. Took another 6 months until I was happy wearing it.

[Simon Hayes]

BJJ should encourage individuality and creativity.

One mans game will always be different to anothers due to their instructor,
their own interpretation of his teaching,the way their brain works,their
body shape and type and their athletic ability (strong or flexible or fast).

Pre set techniques and grading syllabus's will stifle that creativity in my opinion.

Grades should be based on ability on the mat.

If a 'one trick pony' gets a blue he will certainly have to learn new tricks to get purple otherwise he will stay blue forever.

And if that one trick pony keeps pulling his 'trick' on higher and higher grades and doesn't get submitted himself then thats fine,if he can beat the higher grades he deserves the higher belt.

Some Black Belts have thousands of techniques in their repetoire.

Others just have a few that they can make work on anyone and everyone.

[DanCrase]

Never be afraid to ask your instructor a question about technique. However, do say he is wrong or that the technique will not work - that is a quick route to "sparring"

Haha, yeah mate; fully understood!


The answer to your question is in technique fundamentals - for a strangle to work, you must cut off both arteries. Can you do that from the position you are describing? How about if you make adjustments, like changing the angle, the direction of pressure or putting an arm in?

I often go through techniques, positions, transitions and escapes and such in my head, like I'll "envision" them, step by step, when I have some time. I've come up with some escapes and tweaked some subs like this to better adapt my frame (I have pretty short legs, but long arms for my height, kinda like a chimp)

[piratebrido]

BJJ should encourage individuality and creativity.

One mans game will always be different to anothers due to their instructor,
their own interpretation of his teaching,the way their brain works,their
body shape and type and their athletic ability (strong or flexible or fast).

Pre set techniques and grading syllabus's will stifle that creativity in my opinion.


Agree entirely.

Interesting to hear you say that some black belts have thousands of techniques and others have only a few that they have mastered (not to say that they aren't good at the rest!). Do you find this relates in anyway with how much they compete and at what level? Wondering if it compares to Judo in that sense, with high level players having a few throws they have mastered.

[piratebrido]

I often go through techniques, positions, transitions and escapes and such in my head, like I'll "envision" them, step by step, when I have some time. I've come up with some escapes and tweaked some subs like this to better adapt my frame (I have pretty short legs, but long arms for my height, kinda like a chimp)

The biggest thing to get over is giving a fuck if you are tapped. By that I mean if you are playing with a technique and working it out don't get bothered if you end up in a bad position or if you get tapped. It's training after all. Don't think you have just got beat, think you have just learned something.

[DanCrase]

The biggest thing to get over is giving a fuck if you are tapped. By that I mean if you are playing with a technique and working it out don't get bothered if you end up in a bad position or if you get tapped. It's training after all. Don't think you have just got beat, think you have just learned something.

Yeah, I have a problem when I get tapped in that I feel let down in myself. I'm not afraid to tap, and I'm not one of those guys who'll risk injury rather than tap; but everytime I get tapped I see what I should've done.

[diver]

[QUOTE=TRIBULUS;421085]I'm no fan of submissions 101 either, I don't see why a white belt should be posting techniques on the internet when there's loads more qualified people out there. Some of the demonstrations are just plain horrible with so many incorrect details.

I also resent the fact that he wears a BJJ gi, demonstrates BJJ techniques and wears a TMA black belt.


didnt know that. What about the guy who does takedowns 101 is he legit?

[Chippa.]

Aye, think it is from one of those gay wrestling sites. If you google image triangle choke it pops up!

haha, nice.

[The Natural]

Yeah, I have a problem when I get tapped in that I feel let down in myself. I'm not afraid to tap, and I'm not one of those guys who'll risk injury rather than tap; but everytime I get tapped I see what I should've done.

I agree..i have a problem being tapped in the sense that usually go through the motions of -

1. what the fuck happend?

2. FFFFFUUUUUcccckkkkkkk!!!

3. what did i do wrong?

4. What is the counter to that sub?

5. FFFFFFFUUUUUUUccccccccccck again..

but this is all done with a poker face and a smile...:D