submissions from mount

[BenA]

i relatively new to bjj and do it at an mma club not at a specialist club. i'm quite good at getting positions on the ground and have often ended up in mount only to give it up and go back to side control as i don't have any effective submissions (theres no striking, usually i would just G+P). Now im mainly just sticking in side control, controllling them and letting them waste their energy or waiting for them to give me their back so i can rear naked them.
my question is has anyone else had this problem? what should i do? are their many effective submissions from mount? will i just learn more submissions as i progress and not to worry about it now?
i should add the people i roll with are all very inexperienced as well and are all heavier than me. i'm around 10 stone, 5' 8''. the nearest guy is 11 stone 5' 10''. i'm quite flexible and "wriggly"(apperently i'm impossible to hold down and really annoying to grapple with) if that helps.

[david5]

i asked braulio this question a couple of weeks ago, he says he likes the no gi ezekiel, arm triangle and triangle choke from mount

[widge milward]

The "slippery snake" works wonders

[Ross9]

as a beginner myself. I find the things guys do to me from mount is predominantly go for an armbar. Again as a beginner I find from mount I usually struggle to get an armbar, need to practice it more, my position before going for it lets me down (and wriggly people are a pain lol) , also been taught triangle from mount, can change that to a short arm bar half way through (I like that one but never managed it in rolling) , or a gogoplata (if I remember the name right), but I find if the guy sees it coming it's easy to get swept as you shift your weight to one side, or maybe I'm just too slow doing it lol.

Side control rather than just hold them their with weight, use the weight to hold them and go for a key lock or kimura on the far side arm.

All of this may be poor advice tbh, started MMA in Feb of this year, but due to work, and missing some sessions due to socialising, life stuff etc haven't done any Jits at all for the last 2 months or so (probably going to start doing privates in the new year to get the jits back on track) so I'm very much a beginner, just my own viewpoint if it helps from a fellow beginner.

Ross

[Hassan]

Arm bar should be the easiest on if its set up properly and not just done in a mad rush, even if the person is "wriggly"

[bloshengland]

triangle or arm bar would be the best bet but like hassan said dont rush it

[IranianWarMachine]

americana is my personal fav but you can get rolled.

[david5]

americana is my personal fav but you can get rolled.

how do you get the leverage or control for americana from mount?

[Manik]

how do you get the leverage or control for americana from mount?

maybe he meant keylock?

[david5]

a keylock is an americana

[IranianWarMachine]

a keylock is an americana

I put it on twist and pull it down and sometimes in direction to there spine, seems to get the job done, but guys power out and straighten or they roll.

[PointyShinyBurning]

are their many effective submissions from mount? will i just learn more submissions as i progress and not to worry about it now?
You can give the s-mount a try if you want to widen the submission options from the mount. Looks kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ8SbEdJgt0 , there's a lot of material about if you Google it.

[Rob T]

I always work to high/s-mount straight away in nogi. Always looking for the arm-wrap (to arm-triangle, back whatever...) too.

That said, if you're a novice, don't worry too much about subs... they will come in time. Concentrate on getting your mount rock solid and dealing with any escape attempts.

[Manik]

a keylock is an americana

oops! saulo shows the keylock as one of the first subs from mount because you don't have to disrupt your base for it. He used the word "safe" for it. I remember the key was putting your elbow against their neck, and you pull their wrist along the floor and down the opponents body

[vileniall]

I've used americanas from mount and i cant recall anyone throwing me off from it.

I also like triangles, gogoplatas and armbars. and i keep trying to get a guilletine but its a bit annoying and slightly pointless.

[liamwandi]

Hey!


i relatively new to bjj and do it at an mma club not at a specialist club. i'm quite good at getting positions on the ground and have often ended up in mount only to give it up and go back to side control

Ur a beginner, and you're getting often to mount? That indicates that the people you're going against are even less experienced. In other words, you are interested in learning to submit more or less complete beginners. I'm sure you can learn that from the advice below or from the net or from your instructor but it's probably not what u need at the moment.


Now im mainly just sticking in side control, controllling them and letting them waste their energy or waiting for them to give me their back so i can rear naked them.

Exhaust then move to a better position and finish? that's an excellent strategy matey!


my question is has anyone else had this problem? what should i do? are their many effective submissions from mount? will i just learn more submissions as i progress and not to worry about it now?
i should add the people i roll with are all very inexperienced as well and are all heavier than me. i'm around 10 stone, 5' 8''. the nearest guy is 11 stone 5' 10''. i'm quite flexible and "wriggly"(apperently i'm impossible to hold down and really annoying to grapple with) if that helps.

That's many questions. Yes everybody has the same problem in the beginning simply because defence is always mechanically simpler than offence and the person on the bottom is most likely keeping tight and making your submission hunting quite difficult. Now you've done a lot of work and reached the mount. You've somehow got to the passing game and passed and gone to mount.

Work on maintaining the mount. Waaaay more important than all the subs. Get rediculously good at maintaining the mount and the subs will be handed to you. Once you understand the mount better, move to always achieving high mount and S-mount. these are high pressure positions and simply mean that you have climbed so high that your partner's arm(s) are separated from the side of his ribs.

What do all mount subs have in common? (ok maybe 95%):

your partner's arm(s) are separated from the side of his ribs.

Think about it: triangle (arm or leg), armbars, bent armlocks (name irrelevant), gogoplata...etc. the arm is separated from the correct defensive position which is to be glued to the ribs.

Get to that position and subs will be jumping at you. Suddenly the advice above will be so clear you will kick yourself for not seeing it yourself. :cool:

If you focus on the subs too early, you might get them on the beginners but the more experienced will be too tight and you won't know what to do. Let us know how it goes :)

[BenA]

thanks, these have all been very helpful. like i said we're all complete beginners (but growing up with a bully of an older brother may have helped me).
I'll definitely take your advice on board, i think i'll concentrate on me and my progression rather than winning (it just feels great to beat bigger guys, sort of the whole point of bjj).
So basically should I ignore getting the quick win and just learn how to control them and then let the subs come in time?

[david5]

my number one firt line of attack from mount in no gi is the arm triangle. compromises nothing in stability

[blanker]

arm bar every time. its my streetfighter style power move, regardless of were i am (other then having someones back ) im always working towards the mount and then the arm bar.

[vileniall]

arm bar every time. its my streetfighter style power move, regardless of were i am (other then having someones back ) im always working towards the mount and then the arm bar.

why not armbar from the back?

[david5]

personally i dont think the americana from mount works on anyone except beginners

[Rob T]

personally i dont think the americana from mount works on anyone except beginners

It's because they've all watched this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgUcQj-5QwM :D

[david5]

It's because they've all watched this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgUcQj-5QwM :D

lmfao. dreamworld technique. get out of the american by giving the guy the armbar instead

[IranianWarMachine]

lmfao. dreamworld technique. get out of the american by giving the guy the armbar instead

"take off that blackbelt and put your blue belt on ary" :D *applauds*

[david5]

yh, that guy's a prick with his fucking black belt on

[Valour5]

Im suprised the gogoplata doesnt get used more especially if you have a high mount.

[blanker]

why not armbar from the back?

i normally go for the rnc if i have some ones back. if they defend the choke well then i will go for the arm bar or back to mount and then the arm bar.