kick or normal box?

[Gazza]

Hi i am wondering about this forum can it be used for my kickboxing disscusions and questions aswell as boxing?
also i would like to know what people thoughts on american kickboxing? as some people hate it some love it.

[Jak-TapouT-]

Is it not essientialy a stand up section? i presume it would be fine ?

[IranianWarMachine]

american kickboxing do you mean wako rules? Like WCL?

[kickboxingidiot1]

Hi i am wondering about this forum can it be used for my kickboxing disscusions and questions aswell as boxing?
also i would like to know what people thoughts on american kickboxing? as some people hate it some love it.

American kickboxing has its good and bad points.
Some people would argue that it has a very restrictive nature due to not allowing kicks below the waistline and restrictions on clinchwork and knees (i.e. NO clinch/knee/elbows).

I personally think it is OK. Now when you get 2 very good practitioners, say one who is a VERY good kicker and one who is a good boxer, you get fireworks!!!

At a novice level I would say that Thai style or K-1 style kickboxing are miles better.
At the top level american kickboxing is spectacular.

[Gazza]

American kickboxing has its good and bad points.
Some people would argue that it has a very restrictive nature due to not allowing kicks below the waistline and restrictions on clinchwork and knees (i.e. NO clinch/knee/elbows).

I personally think it is OK. Now when you get 2 very good practitioners, say one who is a VERY good kicker and one who is a good boxer, you get fireworks!!!

At a novice level I would say that Thai style or K-1 style kickboxing are miles better.
At the top level american kickboxing is spectacular.

yes ive been told about thai boxing and it looks alot of fun but i couldnt find any clubs near me so i jumped at the chance for american kickboxing btw at my club we train knees, elbows and kicks below the belt even though were told we cant use them in tornys.

[IranianWarMachine]

In "american kickboxing" also known as freestyle karate semi contact kickboxing, most of the time a good boxer messes them up, as the kicks aren't hard enough to do damage or ward off opponents, the side and front kicks are good and good kicker can devistate with axe kicks and hook kicks, jumping spinning back kicks etc. But under k-1 rules they stuggle due to a clear lack of power in the kicks. One thing a lot of them do have is awesome footwork due to the points fighting that most of them do, with blitzing.
I think solid muay thai, with speed and good footwork cross trained with boxing getting good boxing defense is a truly devistating combo.

[mzb]

Anybody got any links (perhaps youtube?) to these top level american kickboxing matches so i can see what its like?

I only ever watch thai and K1 rules so im interested in these "explosive" or "fireworks" that have been spoken of, sounds like it could be great to watch. Cheers

[dunny]

just get onto youtube, savate is similar too, if you enjoy 1 you will enjoy them all

[robbiehood]

try typing lex easdon into youtube,
lex is one of the best kickboxers of the decade

[IranianWarMachine]

there is a lot of wcl and put in wako and semi contact stuff comes up i used to train with this guy and he was a world champ in semi contact kickboxing and was a pro boxer really brutal fighter, so fast for a guy who weighed 90 odd kilos, just mute the sound :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hux3UOsskWg

[OHarra]

I think that learning to Kick at a really high standard (including head kicks) is probably the hardest thing to learn because you have to have really great flexibility (not eveyone has) and really great timing, Also you are vulnerable to take-downs, sweeps, low kicks, blocks and counters etc.

I know this because I spent 10 years training Freestyle Kick Boxing (both Semi-contact and Full contact).

I think low kicks are really effective and easier to master.

Alot of people would probably disagree with me, I would probably focus on developing really solid boxing then learn how to throw, low kicks, knees and elbows.

Would suggest not worrying too much about head kicks as they are low percentage techniques.

Solid basics beat flashy techniques 99% of the time.

[IranianWarMachine]

I think that learning to Kick at a really high standard (including head kicks) is probably the hardest thing to learn because you have to have really great flexibility (not eveyone has) and really great timing, Also you are vulnerable to take-downs, sweeps, low kicks, blocks and counters etc.

I know this because I spent 10 years training Freestyle Kick Boxing (both Semi-contact and Full contact).

I think low kicks are really effective and easier to master.

Alot of people would probably disagree with me, I would probably focus on developing really solid boxing then learn how to throw, low kicks, knees and elbows.

Would suggest not worrying too much about head kicks as they are low percentage techniques.

Solid basics beat flashy techniques 99% of the time.

Completely agree with this, the amount of times i have fought a guy in semi contact who was a better kickboxer, and beaten them with purely better boxing and boxing defense, using a solid jab and lead hook counter is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong you have to undertand the kicks otherwise you'll get smashed but solid hands should come first as you work on your flexibility i have always been better with my hands as my flexibilty for kicks is week, but my hips and knees are pretty flexible for bjj its weird.

[dunny]

i wouldnt adapt boxing into kickboxing, you develop way too many bad habits, such as bobbing and weaving. do this in a kickboxing environment and you're getting a knee to the chops. if you want to be a kickboxer, go kickboxing

[mzb]

there is a lot of wcl and put in wako and semi contact stuff comes up i used to train with this guy and he was a world champ in semi contact kickboxing and was a pro boxer really brutal fighter, so fast for a guy who weighed 90 odd kilos, just mute the sound :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hux3UOsskWg

Thanks for the link mate but i just couldn't watch it, i got to the bit where the guy ducks a punch and then turns his back on the other fighter and runs away, i was shocked! Honestly couldn't believe he turned his back in a fight

[Simon Hayes]

As a former Taekwondo and Kickboxing practitioner i would advise
anyone to train Muay Thai.
Make sure it's real Muay Thai and not an Ex-Kickboxer who has jumped on the
Muay Thai/MMA bandwagon by adding elbows and knees to their style.

There is a huge difference between Muay Thai and Kick Boxing.

Kick Boxing's roots are in Karate.It is really a version of full contact Karate.

Where it differs greatly from real Muay Thai isn't just the low kicks,the real art of Muay Thai lies in the clinch work that sets up elbows and knees.

As a TKD/Kick Boxer i can honestly say that the first time i sparred against a real Muay Thai fighter i realised i had nothing for him.

I would say on average,a guy who has trained for Muay Thai for 6 months with a good gym will be able to shut down any kick boxer who has been training for 2 years.

Kick Boxing is a great sport but it is limited.

Here is a clip of someone i believe is the best kick boxer i ever trained with,
he was something special.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM1pMAk2jeE

[Simon Hayes]

Here's John's brother Stuart having some fun.I did quite a few privates with this guy back in the mid nineties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFuL5SK3Siw&feature=related

I am not just justifying Kick Boxing as a good fighting art i am just showing you what the sport looks like when guys who know what they are doing fight.

[Wiegieboard]

liked that second video. great to watch.

[Simon Hayes]

This is interesting.

This is a good young Muay Thai fighter having to compete in full contact kickboxing rules against Stuart Lawson (The Thai fighter cannot kick below waist,clinch,use elbows or knees.He has had his most damaging weapons confiscated....).

It is interesting to see the 2 styles clash under these rules.

I have no doubt the fight would look extremely different if the pair were fighting under Muay Thai rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1MEEWezQWI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r38mS6NWUk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r38mS6NWUk&feature=related

[dunny]

i think its also important to remember there is more than 1 style of kickboxing

[steve_langford]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ7eoR0fRH0

Fran Zuccula , interesting to note that Fran now trains with Gracie Barra and is working on a MMA future.....

[ReD_mIst]

Kick boxing/Muat Thai is overrated for MMA. Effective kicks aren't easy to land and can be risky, as you give up you base. Low kicks are easier to land, but less effective. They are a weapon of attirition, to slow your opponent down over time.

I have considered western boxing much more effective for MMA for a long time and stil do. Although I encourage fighters to learn how to kick properly, a) so it's in their arsenal and b) because the motion of a good thai dtae gives superb flexibility to the hips which aides ground work and boxing

*to add, I have 8+ years experience of pure Muay Thai, a red kurang ruang and an instructors grade, so I speak from an educated position*

[Yak]

excellent posts from Simon...couldnt have put it better

and agree Lawson brothers are excellent martial artists.

[zacdog07]

Agree wit Red Mist - Kickboxing and Muay Thai are a little wrong for MMA, you leave lots of holes where you can be taken down etc. Thai has excellent kicks and if you can alter the way you kick you would be onto a winner, also Thai has excellent shin checks for blocking..............( I have over 20 years experience in Muay Thai so............) :)

[IranianWarMachine]

In an ideal world i'd love to see a TKD/MT/boxing background striker in mma, man that would be nasty oh wait there was....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHxQl-KwEs
I think it is imperrative if someone wants to MMA they need Muay Thai especially the dutch style, mixed with boxing, so they can defend low kicks and put together solid combos set up with the hands, and basically out box their opponent more often than not, as it is seen the weakness in 90% of top org fighters is the boxing.

[Yak]

dutch style isnt muay thai per say....

Im not knocking it - but dont overlook the proper thai style - the clinch and elbows of the thais are miles better than any of the dutch guys

the key is in an adaptable instuctor

say Phil (nurse) he is a student of traditional thai, and teaches it that way however he knows how to adapt, i.e length the stance a little etc etc, GSP and J Jones both seem to be able to use it ok.

[IranianWarMachine]

dutch style isnt muay thai per say....

Im not knocking it - but dont overlook the proper thai style - the clinch and elbows of the thais are miles better than any of the dutch guys

the key is in an adaptable instuctor

say Phil (nurse) he is a student of traditional thai, and teaches it that way however he knows how to adapt, i.e length the stance a little etc etc, GSP and J Jones both seem to be able to use it ok.

But the dutch guys use better combos and better boxing, which is why their style triumphs with smaller gloves.

[No surrender]

Man cro-cop looked like a completely different fighter in those highlights seemed loads more aggressive and confident!

I like kickboxing and Muay thai and think the differences are vast but there are some v.good kickboxing bouts out there and some talented, exciting fighters.

As for Muay thai in mma the only technique you see used regulary is kicking as said before the chance of getting taken down is there so a lower base is required.....unless your anderson silva then you just neck tie and knee the shit out of who ever you want ha :)

[OHarra]

I think that as long as you have a solid overall skill set in MMA, then you can be more flashy with your stand up like Anderson Silva.

He has excellent Take-down defense and guard so Isn't really frightend of being taken down. This means he has the confidence to throw some wicked Thai combo's (although his boxing is superb aswell)

[Yak]

plenty of thais can fight that way too ;-) - why limit yourself ? surely have more in your arsenal than left hook right low kick - not that isnt effective but why not have more tools in the box so to speak - especially when in a lot of cases people are just learning adapted kickboxing or what is termed 'dutch style'

i.e look at thais such as

Anuwat Kaesamrit

or current 'hooligan' Porsanae - who smash's people in with leg kicks - yet hes only ever learnt 'proper' muaythai

just depends on the fighter

Id would say learn proper thai - and adapt it to your game... which coaches such as Phil Nurse do

and as pointed out above someone like anderson silva does in fights

just IMO

[OHarra]

Hi i am wondering about this forum can it be used for my kickboxing disscusions and questions aswell as boxing?
also i would like to know what people thoughts on american kickboxing? as some people hate it some love it.

Just a thought but why don't you have a look and see what's the best club in your area?

Be it Boxing, Kick Boxing, Thai?

Then go train there.

It's probably a futile argument saying which style you should learn if there is no club in the area.

[Yak]

agree with OHarra

the closer a club is the more chance you will go regularly

so check out all the ones you would be prepared to travel to

maybe get some advice after

i.e I have Johns Kickboxing or Bobs Thaiboxing - has anyone heard of them etc etc