clenbuterol

[andymc]

hi mate hope this helps
Clen is known best for its fat burning effects and ability to burn fat without dieting, caused by the slight increase in body temp it creates.
With each degree that temp of body is increased from its use you will burn up approx an extra 5% of maintenance calories.
It is true thats its effective for fat burning but not true that it creates anabolic gains.
A cycle of 2 weeks on/2 weeks off is best way to be taken and not 2 days on/2 days off as some may recommend as it has a half life of 2 days.
Side effects include trembling of hands, restlesness, headaches, increased perspiration, insomnia and nauseau. These are only temporary and should subside after 8-10 days even with continued use.
Cycle for 8-10 weeks using ephedrine on off weeks.
Start at around 3 tabs per day adding 1 tab daily going no more than 7 tabs, or if u start to feel a bit shaky before then dont go any higher, just maintain dosage for remainder of 2 weeks.

This is just for info only and there is no miracle fat loss cure, a sound diet and exercise regime is only way to get off and keep off fat.

[Lhn]

Other side effects include "DEATH"

It may studies it was shown to cause very irregular heart beats and overall is probably worst to your body that a majority of Roids. Ask yourself are the gains worth it? Do you really need the gains that quick else why not just train hard. Do it naturally mate is my advice :)

[Hywel Teague]

ttt for sound advice from Long

[Godders]

After a caffeine and stress induced mad funky heartbeat.. Stuff using anything that messes with your ticker in a big way.

[Chris Kerr]

I've used clen and found no major fat loss to speak of. I do however believe that it is good if you ARE using roids as you can use it post cycle and it will allow you to keep more of your gains apparently.
I have to disagree with andy though on the dosing...I would certainly suggest the following if you choose to do clen:

DAY 1: 1
DAY 2: 2
DAY 3: 3
DAY 4: 4
DAY 5: 5
DAY 6: 6
DAY 7: 7
DAY 8: 7
DAY 9: 7
DAY 10: 7
DAY 11: 7
DAY 12: 7
DAY 13: 7
DAY 14: 7

Then 2 weeks ephedrine

DAY 15: 7
DAY 16: 7
DAY 17: 7
DAY 18: 7
DAY 19: 7
DAY 20: 7
DAY 21: 7
DAY 22: 7
DAY 23: 7
DAY 24: 7
DAY 25: 7
DAY 26: 7
DAY 27: 7
DAY 28: 7

If at any point, your side effects get too severe, reduce the dosage by 1 tablet until you can handle the correct dosage. never exceed 7 tabs in one single day.

[Hywel Teague]

yeah great advice Chris :confused:

i was wondering how long it would be before we got some roid advice on the forum :bs

[Chris Kerr]

Erm hang on a second, clenbuterol isn't an Androgenic Anabolic Steroid............maybe my 'advice' now is to do some research of your own Mr PC?

[Chris Kerr]

I will just keep my mouth shut from now on then? Public forum

[Godders]

Kerr, post anything you want mate your input is welcome.

Personaly id rather do it the ol hardway. But there is no such thing as a natural bodybuilder.

Protein shakes, creatine, glute etc etc dont grow on trees.

[Hywel Teague]

public forum- people say what they want and i'm not making any effort to stop that. i'm not looking to pick a fight but think about what you're doing ffs

moderators handing out advice like the above we can do without. you haven't done anything constructive for ages, you go off the forum for a few weeks after being run off the net by Leigh and his cronies, then return to dispense wisdom of this nature? please :bored:

you get into a massive argument with LR about roiding, proclaiming innocence when accused of being a juicer and a roid dealer but then hand out little gems of advice like the above the moment anybody has a question.

and its not about PC, its all about CW image. not exactly good stuff to have moderators on a website seen to be condoning use of peformance enhacing stimulants is it? what kind of message would that send out about CW as a whole?

personally i think that the weights conditioning and nutrition forum should be kept DRUG FREE :soapbox:

[andymc]

its not anabolic/androgenic
The dosage i gave is similar to ones u suggested Chris no more than 7 starting dosage from a low amount adding 1 tab daily and eph on the 14 days off.
100% agree with your dosaging Chris just personally wouldnt start with 1.
In my opinion youd probably get better results from a standard E/C/A stack than with the clen!!!!

[Chris Kerr]

FYI i wasn't 'run off the net' I have been out training and partying...letting my hair down...not being so uptight...you know, chilling out. Something I reckon you need to try.
I would believe that being a 'moderator' would give me MORE integrity to be able to give unbiased advice? Do you still think clen is a steroid?
I never condone any kind of substance abuse...I said IF he CHOSE to use these kind of substances. Clen is used in treating asthma mate.
I think you are extremely self righteous, and you have insulted me. If I have insulted you, I apologise.
Wouldn't it surely be better if I gave balanced advice regardless of the subject matter? If someone came on here saying for instance "I'm gonna start DBol soon to get big and strong" and it was clear they hadn't done any research, would it be a better idea for me to keep my mouth shut knowing it was going to kill him? Or would it be better to suggest 'safe' dosages so as to keep him out of intensive care? You know what I am getting at?

Mr X: I'm gonna use clen for a month non stop taking 10 tabs a day
Me: .................
You: (Phew I'm glad that Chris Kerr dude isn't here I wonder what he would say)
Me: .................

A MONTH DOWN THE ROAD

Dr Z: My patient, Mr X has just suffered a massive heart attack at the age of 21 and it was caused by taking ridiculous amounts of clenbuterol.
You: Oh no, my condolences etc
Me: (Hmmmm, bet Doc Oc wishes I had of told him that dosage was a bad idea)

[Chris Kerr]

andy, hi mate, just read yours again, and I get it now. Yeah starting on 3 is probably ok, it would probably just depend on the person, which is why I suggest 1 on day 1 etc. at least if you start with 1 you can increase it, but if you start higher and suffer bad sides, you can't undo what you've already done if you know what i mean?
Let's all share our knowledge, eh? ;)

[Hywel Teague]

taken from pie eaters post on SFUK from the MMA on Bravo thread, about ten minutes old:


P.s Bloody Diet when do i start getting thin????????????? need to speak to Chris kerr about possible pharmaceutical intervention!!!!!!!!!

this is the kind of rep you get by handing out advice like this all the time.

i care not what you do in your own time chris, i don't care if you juice or not- its your choice either way. if you do, fair enough, if you don't, i salute you and thank fuck- but you have to admit for anyone who reads these forums it seems as if you are the man to see about roid advice.

i think that people handing out advice on the internet is just as dangerous as your presumption that i'd prefer you to say nothing and that something might have happened to him had you not said anything! do you honestly think you have a duty to tell him how to do it properly? never thought of saying "try exercise without, and then see what you think?"

to be honest, on subjects like this i would prefer you say nothing, simply because i don't believe it has a place here, or anywhere for that matter.

[cagewarriors]

I don,t know where to start guy,s I appreciate both your input on this forum so much.
Chris there is no doubt that you have researched the products that you have mentioned & I feel that it is valuable information that needs to be shared If people wish to travel this road, & I have to agree also that by giving good constructive advice on these products could help prevent in proper use or abuse of these products.
Doctor Octagon is equally a great guy who prefers to advice his followers on the natural benefits that can be gained by hard work & determination.
I feel neither of you have had the intention of offending each other, but simply have different Ideals & goals to achieveing the perfect physical condition.
I would like to suggest to you Chris that you continue to deliver your analasys for the greater good of the people that choose this route, whilst still maintaining your respected position as a moderator on Cagewarriors forums, by incorporating the correct use of statements to protect & serve the best interests & image of Cagewarriors.

I hope all that lot makes sense guy,s?

Regards Dougie

[Chris Kerr]

LMAO I was wondering who would take that seriously...I know 'pie eater' and it was pretty obvious (perhaps by the THREE laughing smileys next to the statement) that he was JOKING.

Yes I do believe I have a 'duty' as you put it...as I said, if the gentleman in question died due to incorrect dosing, I would never forgive my silence when I could have helped.
And with all due respect to andy, I don't see you giving HIM a hard time? Do you know him or something?

I think the real issue here is that you feel threatened by me?

PS Godders, cheers, I just noticed your post. I appreciate it.

Also, I wasn't going to debate the rights or wrongs, that was NEVER my intention, as that had already been debated. I was simply saying that if he wanted to do clen, then he would be advised to do it my way IN MY OPINION. I have a duty to pass on my knowledge and not to make people's minds up for them...that's their choice. You need to loosen up Doc :)

[Chris Kerr]

Ah, Dougie, I just read your post too.
I understand, and agree with you. To be 100% honest, I had not realised I was even a moderator of this forum, but I know now what you mean. I was posting as a user, not a mod, and my future posts will be worded better.
:)

[astrobabe75]

Guys its distressing to read!!!
I can see both perspective for and against and I spose I have 2 agree that if sum1 wants 2 do sumthin then they generally will- so sound advice is good advice... its not worth falling out over is it? or maybe it is in which case I will probably get a slating for posing this!!!! :( :) :D

[Chris Kerr]

Nah, Astrobabe you ROCK!!!

[Hywel Teague]

I think the real issue here is that you feel threatened by me?

:biglaugh:

fucking hell, good one chris, i was wiping tears away from my eyes after reading that one! wtf makes you think that, i have no idea.... :rolleyes:

yes i saw the smilies after pie eaters post- still it may be a joke but unfortunately it rings true in many peoples ears.

chris, the reason i didn't say anything about andys post was because i DON't know him, but also because he put down the side effects and possible complications of taking clen unlike yourself who just spewed out advice on what was the best way to take it without saying "oh, don't forget it has got some bad points you know". did you mention that with overuse he might end up having a heart attack? no, not until a few posts later.

chris, if you have good advice about special supplements and you honestly feel it is your duty to do so then post it, but at least put down both sides of the coin so people know what they are getting themselves into. surely this would also be your duty? to point out the possible harmful effects that he could encounter?

[Chris Kerr]

Andy had already put down the side effects and I am not in the habit of repeating things which is why I am going to put an end to this.
I have made posts in the past where I have put down both sides of the coin, and it gets tedious, so as I say, if someone has already written what I was gonna say then I'm not gonna REPEAT myself.
Oh and I'll just be repeating myself AGAIN if I tell you that I am not out to say "yes do this" or "no don't do this"...all I wanted to say was that if he DID want to do it, regardless of the pros and cons, then he would be better off doing it in a certain way.

And Doc, I don't know you and you don't know me, so what's the difference!? I'm confused.

"yes i saw the smilies after pie eaters post- still it may be a joke but unfortunately it rings true in many peoples ears." --- I couldn't care less what rings in people's ears. I have a clear conscience.
And yes I do feel you are threatened by me, as I believe we have a clash of personalities.

[Hywel Teague]

And Doc, I don't know you and you don't know me, so what's the difference!? I'm confused.

difference is, you're all over the net and andy isn't. i'm sure in the past we have "conversed" on other threads but i know i haven't had any "contact" with andy. this is why i feel i could bring something up with you rather than a "stranger" (no offence andy, you're not exactly a stranger i know but can't think of a better word).


And yes I do feel you are threatened by me, as I believe we have a clash of personalities

you couldn't be more right, but at the same time you couldn't be more wrong.

now die thread die. i have much work to be done.

[cagewarriors]

I agree guy,s put this one to bed now this is,nt SFUK nor do I want it become so!
I think you have both argued your case quite well & I feel that something constructive can be learnt from this before it takes the wrong route.

I feel that it is more important how you say something! as opposed to what you say.
When it is in conjunction with advice on a product or service it is very important to deliver a balanced argument for & against! standard rule of buisness, that way there is no possibility for confusion.

On this particular incidence I think it is important to establish yourself first as a concienious observer before delivering your annalaysis, i,e maintaining your position!

Please I ask you guys to put now behind you & move on

[Hywel Teague]

lol @ "don't want it to become SFUK!"

sound advice- duly dropped and laid by the wayside.

like i said chris, i was not looking for an argument, but i do agree we have a clash of personalities.

best to leave it at that :)

[Lhn]

I give my input, both Chris and the Dr are both right depending how you look at it. The reality is that people are taking drugs to enhance performance etc and that is the stance magazines like Muscle Development take. They give you the latest information so you can make an inform choice. Personally I do not feel it is worth risking your life and Chris just needs to be careful not to give advice which can be potentially life ending, but he can hope to give his experiences. The Dr is right that he however should not be encourage, people are young and will listen to more experience guys like Chris - so just be careful mate. At the end of the day, the person needs to make their own decision...... thats the reality no one can make it for them. Just ask yourself is it worth it.

From all the research Ive have read Clenbuterol is not safe, infact I would rather take anabolic steriods than Clenbuterol - but neither is worth the short term gains and risk to you life. For example, this is information from some studies:

"clenbuterol also yielded three very negative changes. First, after just four weeks, clenbuterol-treated rats were unable to maintain their normal swimming or running training intensities, while clean rodents were quite capable of continuing. Secondly, the hearts of the clenbuterol-taking, trained rats increased dramatically in size compared to the hearts of sedentary rats, but the heart expansion was probably due to the infiltration of collagen fibres into the heart walls, not an increase in heart-muscle cells. Collagen is a tough connective tissue which doesn't augment heart-muscle power but in fact stiffens the heart, potentially leading to a decrease in cardiac output. Increases in collagen may also produce cardiac arrhythmias. Thirdly, clenbuterol rats suffered from noticeable cardiac-cell degeneration. It appears that, in spite of its popularity, clenbuterol is a potentially dangerous drug which offers very few positive effects for either the power or endurance athlete."

You should read some of the other studies - I wasn't joking about Death!!!!! :rip:

Finally this doesn't need to get unfriendly, that is the last thing we want at the CW forum - input from both you guys are valuable.

[astrobabe75]

can u just kiss and make up now? i don't know if its the counsellor/mother in me but it would b cool if u did!!! i don't mean that in a "gay" way either!! thanks chris for saying i rock, gawd bless ya lovey (and i am not even from london- can u see wot all this is doin to me!!!) :fairy: :kiss:

[Maccavelli]

"Roids, roids, roids, im looking for a good time"

Supplements are for pussies :) so is lifting weights

[Hywel Teague]

"Roids, roids, roids, i'm looking for a good time"

camp but funny :D

[Godders]

Thing is you have to remember guys is that you cant dictate to people what to do.

People want to take stuff (and i dont mean clen) that gives them the extRa advantage and if you just say "Dont do it", chances are they will go down to the gym, ask someone there who could be telling them all sorts.

People buy all sorts of stuff and feel happy doing it. I mean look at those pop idol CD`s u see on the wall at WHSmith and FHM.
You go up to them, you scream, you shout, you do the speel about "You only think its cool now cause some PR agent told you so, your buying into the media hype". You try to explain its the same shitty songs their parents listened to, that they thought was complete and utter cack. :soapbox:

So the moral of the story is, Kill, Kill, Kill Garath Gates. Roids will give you rage that will help you to beat up his bouncers.

[astrobabe75]

so godders its gareth gates now is it? well at least ur leaving justin alone for a change :p

[Rob Hannis]

He had to stop with justin, what with the injuction and pending court case.

Not going to add my tuppence now everyones chilled out, just that with both of you guys offering advcie here then people should be able to get all the facts and make up their own minds, with some of their own research of course.

[Chris Kerr]

Yep I am definately happy to put this one to bed (even though it looks like it already is).

I gotta say Long, that quote about the rats on clen...I read on the internet that same article, but they neglected to say that the rats were on human doses, and for their size, that is ridiculous!!
Good article though nonetheless.

[droc]

Doc Oc, I see your point and to a certain extent I agree with you but...

I'd rather the information was there so I could be better informed before making a choice.

To use another analogy, are you for or against Teenagers being advised on contraception??

They're gonna be having sex anyway so why not try to avoid some of the huge numbers of teenage pregnancies.

Same goes for Clen' some people will use it anyway so it helps to have Experienced roiders like Chris to keep them on the straight and narrow!! ;)

Did I ever tell any of you about the blondes in a bar in Newcastle that thought Chris was a Juicer??

DROC

[Lhn]

Aye its is a good article

"To determine some of clenbuterol's actions, scientists at the University of Melbourne in Australia recently gave clenbuterol to laboratory rats at dosages of 2 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day."

"Effective Dose
80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful. " Source http://www.steroidtips.com/clenbuterol.htm

Thats about 4 to 7 - 2mg tabs a day. So your right Chris that is quite high. That would put humans say on 1mg per 10-15kg of body weight where as the rats are on 2mg per 1kg - but as we all know nature is never in proportion, but still I wouldn't be happy seeing results like that (especially when rats are hardy fuckers who can survive just about anything). Questions like how long where the rats on it werent clear??? who knows unless you see the full report, but I have seen more detail advice in Muscle Development and I didn't like their findings at all - and they give it to you straight. At the end of the day everyone has to make their own decisions.

[astrobabe75]

excuse my ignorance but what on earth is a "juicer"?? ref chris and the blondes. could u tell me honey? thanx :shy:

[Hywel Teague]

a juicer is someone on the "juice", also known as "special vitamins", but most commonly known as "roids".

a juicer is a cheater in any sport and someone who eshews rules and fairplay in pursuit of winning at all costs.

juicers=cheaters

[astrobabe75]

thanks 4 answering that 4 me, i had no idea wot that meant.:)

[Chris Kerr]

Yeah Long, I don't ever know who to believe, as there are usually 3 sides to every story: Side A, Side B, and The Truth.

Droc, yeah those birds were funny...I was actually quite offended though that they thought I was on gear. I wasn't even big! I am up to almost 82 kilos now due to my amazing alcohol and pizza diet, but I must say I am looking good for it! I dunno how I do it! I am gonna try and get a few modelling gigs (seriously) since I was persuaded not to do stripping.
Lol now the girls just say "Oooh you're quite stocky aren't you" which I reckon's worse than saying I'm on gear!!

[Maccavelli]

Your too ugly to be a model :D

[Chris Kerr]

yeh thats what the blokes keep saying, but the girlies have other opinions...

[astrobabe75]

Go for it honey :D

[Chris Kerr]

Awwww thanks Liesa :)

[Rob Hannis]

Mac is correct.

[Chris Kerr]

JEALOUSY!!!

[Rob Hannis]

if you say so mate, I reckon the women are just trying to see if the rumours are ture

[astrobabe75]

wot rumours?

[Chris Kerr]

What rumour?? :cool: