Phil Richards and strength/power training.

[Jamie Taylor]

I was doing some research on lowering the bodys acidity by cutting down on meats, using greens etc and came across an article by some dude who had trained with Phil Richards.

At one point in the article he said something along the lines of ' Phil knows that as far as getting strong and powerful is concerned, the nervous system only starts firing properly after the 7-8th set so make sure you're doing around 10 sets of deads, cleans and any other ' big bang ' excercises.

Is this something that has been used and accepted for a while ? I always thought 5 sets was more than enough on any power / strength excercise especially if you're doing more than one exercise in that session as rest periods are generally a lot longer than if you were training for size.

Very interested to know if anybody else trains in this manner. I realise it's not ideal for mma as there's so many other things that need to be worked on, I'm talking about somebody who just trains purely for strength / power.

[Justin Devonshire]

Its a bit vague for him to just say '10 sets'. How many reps in each set? How much weight? etc.

I have used warm up sets and autoregulation (which is often discussed by strength coach Christian Thibaudeau) where you start 'ramping up' the nervous system by performing multiple, short 'feeler 'sets until you get to your desired load for the day and then crank out a few proper work sets.

For example, if you max in a lift was approximatley 100kg, you'd start by performing a set of 1-3 explosive reps with 40kg, and continually add 5-10kg on each set and perform 1-2 reps (not to get fatigued, but to excite the nervous system) each set.

This method can often bring your total number of sets to over 10, but most of these are not considered work sets, but more of a CNS warm up.


I think I've described that well enough?


Maybe this is what the trainer is talking about

[Jamie Taylor]

Thanks Justin. Yeah I know about not counting the warm up sets but I'm pretty sure he meant 10 work sets ! I'll dig up the article and let you decide. You might be right but you'd think he'd explain...Hmmmm.

This is what he said, the rest of the article is pintless as its diet related but yeah sounds to me like he advocates 10 actual work sets especially as he says about mental strength, doing 4-5 warm up sets then your actual 5 work sets is not exactly challenging mentally is it ?

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Phil has found that the nervous system only really starts firing after 7-8 sets so you need to be looking at the best part of 10 sets of deadlifts, box squats, hang cleans or any other ‘big bang’ exercise to see your performance increase week in, week out. This does wonders for mental strength believe me.

[MikeyL]

Its a bit vague for him to just say '10 sets'. How many reps in each set? How much weight? etc.

I have used warm up sets and autoregulation (which is often discussed by strength coach Christian Thibaudeau) where you start 'ramping up' the nervous system by performing multiple, short 'feeler 'sets until you get to your desired load for the day and then crank out a few proper work sets.

For example, if you max in a lift was approximatley 100kg, you'd start by performing a set of 1-3 explosive reps with 40kg, and continually add 5-10kg on each set and perform 1-2 reps (not to get fatigued, but to excite the nervous system) each set.

This method can often bring your total number of sets to over 10, but most of these are not considered work sets, but more of a CNS warm up.


I think I've described that well enough?


Maybe this is what the trainer is talking about


Ive also read this stuff.

Thibaudeau does indeed have some great stuff on CNS activation and auto regulation (blast iso's, work from pins etc) but I dont know how good the stuff would work for MMA.

I would never go as high as 10 straight sets on heavy compound movements, you could kiss goodbye to recovery. if you are ramping up to ten sets using 'feeler sets', autoregulation and his 'perfect rep' set up, then I cant see a problem.

Also i belived getting activated took a lot less than 7-8 sets!

Chad Waterbury has done something similar but with straight sets which might be better for MMA?

Mike

[Jamie Taylor]

You'd marry Chad Waterbury if he allowed it.

[MikeyL]

I would marry Mike if he allowed it.

Fixed ya homo :D

[Jamie Taylor]

So whats the verdict ? Is Philly Richards talking shit ? I suppose it doesn't matter anyway you'd never ever catch me doing ten work sets of deadlifts lol.

You still squattin' and deadliftin Mikey ? I have to give up the squats it fucking murders my shoulders trying to hold the bar in place and I can't get away with barbell front squats. Been doing dumbell front squats instead, a bit girly compared to the good old manly squat rack but still they fucking wipe the floor with ya quads.

Me and you should have a little friendly strength competition see who can get the strongest in say 8 weeks. I think you are slightly stronger at the mo so you have an unfair advantage. Maybe if you win abdul will compliment you again and you might get a chuffy on, go bright red and start babbling shit like last time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What ya reckon, will be fun and give us both something to aim for ? Plus I gotta do loads of thai training and the grappling on wed / mma fri where you could be in the gym getting ya numbers up ?

[Justin Devonshire]

So whats the verdict ? Is Philly Richards talking shit ? I suppose it doesn't matter anyway you'd never ever catch me doing ten work sets of deadlifts lol.

Like said earlier, it depends. Its hard to say without the full info on what's going on.

He could be doing 10 sets of 1 rep (max singles), and although I wouldn't personally feel the need to go even that high in volume maybe the trainer has his reasons.


Its just hard to evaluate without knowing more info.

[Bodyactive]

Have a look at the Mike mentzer way of training, total flipside. 10 working sets of any exercise would destroy you.As sombody else posted, recovery time would increase and you would be at the point of overtraining leaving yourself open to all sorts of injuries.

[Jamie Taylor]

I am familiar with HIT principles. Pretty much exclusively how I trained when I was trying to build muscle years ago. Low volume was the way forward then.

[MikeyL]

Im in mate.

How would you like to do it? Say total over 3-5 excersizes for 1RM? Was thinking deads, DB bench and clean and press (with barbell or DB depends which you can do with your shoulder)

Was also thinking about vertical leap as I know how you love that shit?

Sounds like a good idea to get our numbers up as I never train with anyone.

[Jamie Taylor]

Sounds good but how about 3rm though ? Dont fancy doing a 1rm dumbell clean and press to be honest or a dead. Also the dumbells dont go up in small enough increments for 1rm ie 38, 42, 46, 50.

Vertical leap is a good idea and how about weighted chins too to make the 5 exercises ?

So...

Deads
DB Press
Dumbell one arm clean and press
Vertical leap
Weighted chins

Are we going for best increase from now to 8 weeks or just whos lifting the biggest numbers ?

[MikeyL]

Either mate,

It depends on how close we are to each other at the moment. I think I can pull more than you but Im sure you can bench more than me.

Will have to check my numbers start of next week.

Excersizes look good though

[Bodyactive]

I'm a huge fan of HIT and its always worked best for me.If anybody is curious about what HIT is we have a section dedicated to it on the site- http://www.bodyactive-online.co.uk/training/resistance/methods/hit/highintensitytraining.asp

[simonmobiledisco]

Sorry, i may be under qualified, but if you are doing 10 sets, what you are lifting isn't 'heavy'.

I agree with what just has said about an active incremental warm up

[colonel]

I think it depends on the individual. Personally I know it takes my CNS a while to fire up & I tend to do better as the sets go on. I alos know people that do better in the earler sets. There is a shool of thought that it takes a minimum amount of reps(obviously within the strength rep range) & however many sets it takes to get to that number for strength gains. some people like to go with a certain amount of time unders tension for each set. There are many different ways to get there & no single way is applicable for everybody

[Wiegieboard]

10 working sets is the path to severe overtraining imo.

Sure I do between 5 and 7 sets of warm ups, but I get best results from 3 sets on deadlifts and two sets of support exercises which are no where near the intensity of the working sets.

I don't even know if it's possible to do 10 heavy sets. I'd definitely have to lower the weight after my 5th set as I'd already be completely wiped out.

Maybe I could do ten if I was pumping gratuitous sets of steroids into my system? Who knows?