A step towards a uniting the UK MMA scene and maybe a governing body....

[JohnJunior]

I responded with the below to a thread on the Pro MMA discussion, but its home should really be here:

well...we all talk about tidying up the sport loads so I think some action needs to be taken, collectively. I posted some stuff on a governing body thread last year and have spoken with lots of different people to decide a 'way forward' for UK MMA. we're all very passionate about it and everyone has slightly different ideas, but that shouldn't stop the sport evolving.

I am proposing over the coming weeks to set out a sort of pro forma for how we would all like to see MMA promotions run; consider all the little issues that fighters, referees and promoters squabble about- weigh ins not being witnessed, fighters purse, difference in rules between promotions, submission of results, medical preparation and participation, hand wrapping...everything really. If we collectively adhere to an informal guideline and it becomes successful then maybe someone or an organisation, even the British Boxing Board of Control may look at UK MMA and see that we are all trying to clear up all the disparities. Furthermore, we may even have fewer reasons to sit on here and moan or acccuse a promoter about ambiguous rules/ match making etc.

I am happy collect the information and try to press this forward, but please be gentle with me and remember i'm just a fighter and spectator like the rest of you! Please PM me if you're interested in participating ie adding your thoughts about certain key points. I'm trying to structure a document which may take some time, but we've got to start somewhere. I am not attempting an individual crusade here and I wont pretend to know as much as the next person. And this certainly will not work unless fighters in particular buy into the idea.

[SlimDavy]

Any updates on this?

[BellatorGero]

go you!

this is step one on the way to the sport becoming recognised in this country

[Greg Carlo]

The only way this sport will become recognised as a sport is if a national governing body is formed, this will then stop any tom dick an harry from starting up fight promotions chassing the dollar rather than putting the fighters first. This would ensure all promotions are sanctioned and also provide adeqate insuarance for fighters an promotions. However if this is not put in place rather soon i can see disaster striking , like it or not sum1 is going to die or suffer a long term injury from competing and when this happens if a governing body is not set in place british law will have a field day and probally end up banning mma and forceing it to go under ground this is what none of us want to see.

anyone else have any views on this?

[scotsmmafan]

Cage Warriors seems to be the home of UK MMA.

It makes sense to regulate yourselves to a high standard, to show BBBC that your all pulling together.

One thing id love to see is a forum dedicated to show results. IE:

Ultimate Cage Fighting 6: Undisputed

Date: Saturday 1st June
Venue: SECC, Glasgow
Referees: Herb Dean, John McCarthy
Judges: Cecil Peoples, TJ Day, Les Mills
Attendance: 3000
Sponsored by: Burger King

PRO FIGHTS
Silva bt Hendo via triangle, 3rd min, rd1.
etc

SEMI PRO FIGHTS
StPierre bt Hughes via TKO, Headkick, 4th min, rd3
etc

This would provide a data base for matchmaking, keeping track of fav fighters/shows, sponsor exposure etc.

[BellatorGero]

Cage Warriors seems to be the home of UK MMA.

It makes sense to regulate yourselves to a high standard, to show BBBC that your all pulling together.

One thing id love to see is a forum dedicated to show results. IE:

Ultimate Cage Fighting 6: Undisputed

Date: Saturday 1st June
Venue: SECC, Glasgow
Referees: Herb Dean, John McCarthy
Judges: Cecil Peoples, TJ Day, Les Mills
Attendance: 3000
Sponsored by: Burger King

PRO FIGHTS
Silva bt Hendo via triangle, 3rd min, rd1.
etc

SEMI PRO FIGHTS
StPierre bt Hughes via TKO, Headkick, 4th min, rd3
etc

This would provide a data base for matchmaking, keeping track of fav fighters/shows, sponsor exposure etc.


That is a very sensible idea

[Jay Evans]

Cage Warriors seems to be the home of UK MMA.

It makes sense to regulate yourselves to a high standard, to show BBBC that your all pulling together.

One thing id love to see is a forum dedicated to show results. IE:

Ultimate Cage Fighting 6: Undisputed

Date: Saturday 1st June
Venue: SECC, Glasgow
Referees: Herb Dean, John McCarthy
Judges: Cecil Peoples, TJ Day, Les Mills
Attendance: 3000
Sponsored by: Burger King

PRO FIGHTS
Silva bt Hendo via triangle, 3rd min, rd1.
etc

SEMI PRO FIGHTS
StPierre bt Hughes via TKO, Headkick, 4th min, rd3
etc

This would provide a data base for matchmaking, keeping track of fav fighters/shows, sponsor exposure etc.

Tbh if a few of the event organisers could just post results in easier to read fashion it would be a start

[Truthseeker]

A fighters union should be the priority independent of any governing body.

[cmaauk]

................. also provide adeqate insuarance for fighters an promotions.....................

As many of you know i run the Cobra Martial Arts Association (which is a National group)

With regards to the above sorry guys but the none of the insurance companies i have spoken to, TL Risk (Towry Law) and Perkins Slade for example will cover competing in MMA so you could be onto a loser from that point.

However fighters can of course take out their own personal injury policies which can cost between £150 and £200 each per year.

The following article explains why in more detail:

http://cmaauk.com/articles/mma_insurance.html

Andy.

[JohnJunior]

Thanks to those have recently posted...it took a while to get messages back etc. I am unknown on the UK MMA scene, so I'm finding it pretty difficult to get people to listen. However, this certainly wont stop me, so I've started to offer myself as a commentator on MMA shows which has led me to train and meet new teams, promotors etc, so my networking base is growing. I am building the framework gradually and learning along the way. There are others out there doing similar things and I've tried contacting them, but to no avail. I truely believe we need to pull together to avoid duplication and bolster our effort in a common goal.

On the note of insurance, yes Andy I understand your point, but in order to the insurance business to underwrite the risk of our sport I think we need to demonstrate our ability to control the negatives and promote the positives. Without mentioning any names, would you as a business underwrite or provide insurance for a martial arts show that have a name which basically shouts "extreme, brutal violence"?? the general publics understanding of MMA is poor, and the posters they see for events often lead them to assume the worst. More and more people I meet from ligitamate fight teams are pissed off with inconsiderate promotion that isn't helping with the longevity of UK MMA, so I think everybody wants to tighten things up its just how. I'll carry on with my framework idea and ask for input from everyone who wants it to happen. Ignore the obstacles and negatives for now and lets gets the ball rolling.

[Rosi]

I agree that we somehow need to get everyone working together on this.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=153336941346126

All input appreciated!

[chrislamuk]

I responded with the below to a thread on the Pro MMA discussion, but its home should really be here:

well...we all talk about tidying up the sport loads so I think some action needs to be taken, collectively. I posted some stuff on a governing body thread last year and have spoken with lots of different people to decide a 'way forward' for UK MMA. we're all very passionate about it and everyone has slightly different ideas, but that shouldn't stop the sport evolving.

I am proposing over the coming weeks to set out a sort of pro forma for how we would all like to see MMA promotions run; consider all the little issues that fighters, referees and promoters squabble about- weigh ins not being witnessed, fighters purse, difference in rules between promotions, submission of results, medical preparation and participation, hand wrapping...everything really. If we collectively adhere to an informal guideline and it becomes successful then maybe someone or an organisation, even the British Boxing Board of Control may look at UK MMA and see that we are all trying to clear up all the disparities. Furthermore, we may even have fewer reasons to sit on here and moan or acccuse a promoter about ambiguous rules/ match making etc.

I am happy collect the information and try to press this forward, but please be gentle with me and remember i'm just a fighter and spectator like the rest of you! Please PM me if you're interested in participating ie adding your thoughts about certain key points. I'm trying to structure a document which may take some time, but we've got to start somewhere. I am not attempting an individual crusade here and I wont pretend to know as much as the next person. And this certainly will not work unless fighters in particular buy into the idea.

The British Boxing Board will have nothing to do with MMA - bottom line.

The UFC have invited members of the board and Simon Block on at least 2 occasions that I can remember and he has categorically stated that he is not interested.

MMA and boxing are two completely different sports and as such must be treated as such. MMA needs to go it only rather than depend on other sports to back it up.

[boxingbrit]

A fighters union should be the priority independent of any governing body.

The GMB will cover MMA as well as boxing.

[Mad Dog]

Cage Warriors seems to be the home of UK MMA.

It makes sense to regulate yourselves to a high standard, to show BBBC that your all pulling together.

One thing id love to see is a forum dedicated to show results. IE:

Ultimate Cage Fighting 6: Undisputed

Date: Saturday 1st June
Venue: SECC, Glasgow
Referees: Herb Dean, John McCarthy
Judges: Cecil Peoples, TJ Day, Les Mills
Attendance: 3000
Sponsored by: Burger King

PRO FIGHTS
Silva bt Hendo via triangle, 3rd min, rd1.
etc

SEMI PRO FIGHTS
StPierre bt Hughes via TKO, Headkick, 4th min, rd3
etc

This would provide a data base for matchmaking, keeping track of fav fighters/shows, sponsor exposure etc.

good idea but its already been done on www.mmauniverse.com (http://www.mmauniverse.com) (hope you dont mind me mentioning them, there is no forum so not a competing website)

[BakedBean]

Im guessing this hasnt progressed? From the small amount of research i have done on this the sticking blocks are as follows:

1)Time
It is going to take a shit load of time to set this thing up then run it for 2 years before it can be reconised.
Travel around meeting promoters and signing them up.
2)Money
The initial legal documents, policy , structure, then getting people to actually pay into it for 2 years so it can operate before it is recognized and legislation makes it mandatory.

The first step I think is to carry out a cost excersize and find out exactly how much it all costs , then assess the time with associated costs of running and then work out how it will be funded for the first year whilst people are being signed up.

The problems will come when the governing body says or does something that one or two of the big promotions dont agree with and they then opt out of the scheme placing it in jeoperdy.

A question to any promoters reading:

How much would you be willing to pay into a body like this? £500 a show? would that cover the personal required to be present and check everything was in order?

[CraigSt.Clair]

Dude some promoters don't even pay for the cage, chances of paying for this?

[BakedBean]

Dude some promoters don't even pay for the cage, chances of paying for this?

From what I understand it may only need 3 or 4 promotions to agree.

Once they have operated for 2 years and become reckognized the others will have to follow suit although then it will be cheaper as the body will have public funding also.

[CraigSt.Clair]

They don't HAVE to follow suit, we will just get unlicensed, like boxing.

Tbh I WANT a commission as I believe it would help massively with the public perception of MMA, but it needs one of the big dogs to be backing it, such as (you will hate this lol) Dave O Donnel, problem is after the BAMMA incidents he may be off put with regards to trying to co-promote/work together

[BakedBean]

They don't HAVE to follow suit, we will just get unlicensed, like boxing.

Tbh I WANT a commission as I believe it would help massively with the public perception of MMA, but it needs one of the big dogs to be backing it, such as (you will hate this lol) Dave O Donnel, problem is after the BAMMA incidents he may be off put with regards to trying to co-promote/work together

LOL despite what people think i actually think very highly of Dave O Donnel and the stick I give him is only to help him fullfill his potential, but I do not agree with the need for one of the big dogs initially, yes it would help but I suspect that the process itself would result in unlicensed MMA being banned.

I believe that a two year process that highlights and regulates all the problems/shortfalls presently in UK MMA (blood tests, poor medical supervision/assesments the list is endless) would result in much tighter control being placed on the unlicensed form sport and likely a ban as MMA does not have the same historical significance as boxing and is viewed very differently.

And thus this would force all the good promotions who are already taking care of most of what will become the regulations will have to follow suit.

All the small shit ones will shut down.

It will change the face of the sport for ever in the UK and will take a good 5-10 years before people stop moaning about it and talking about how much better it was before but the fighters will be safer and likely better and more reliably paid.

[CraigSt.Clair]

LOL despite what people think i actually think very highly of Dave O Donnel and the stick I give him is only to help him fullfill his potential, but I do not agree with the need for one of the big dogs initially, yes it would help but I suspect that the process itself would result in unlicensed MMA being banned.

I believe that a two year process that highlights and regulates all the problems/shortfalls presently in UK MMA (blood tests, poor medical supervision/assesments the list is endless) would result in much tighter control being placed on the unlicensed form sport and likely a ban as MMA does not have the same historical significance as boxing and is viewed very differently.

And thus this would force all the good promotions who are already taking care of most of what will become the regulations will have to follow suit.

All the small shit ones will shut down.

It will change the face of the sport for ever in the UK and will take a good 5-10 years before people stop moaning about it and talking about how much better it was before but the fighters will be safer and likely better and more reliably paid.

Comedy is I agree with you on every point except the idea that we could ban unlicensed mma, not really happening, people will do whatever they like unfortunately

[BakedBean]

I dont think it definitly will be banned I just think it is quite possible given that I would see the issue of unregulated MMA being banned once the sport is regulated as something both liberal and conservative politicions would agree on which would fit our present political climate.

I also think it may not be a bad thing for unregulated MMA to be banned and could perhaps be something the governing body should push for.

This would eliminate the cowboys and make the sport safer.

But it would limit choice to some degree, how much of a bad thing that is im not sure.

[SlimDavy]

Just came across this thread again after being away from the forum for a good while. I'd just like to state a few points, not in any particular order, concerning governing/sanctioning bodies.

In all combat sports there should be a form of regulation. Even though the UFC does not sanction events via a particular body per se, they do have to adhere to the regional various Athletic Commissions of the US, which in effect, does regulate the sport and insist on minimum standards, of which I believe the UFC not only meet these standards but also far exceed them, making their brand of MMA the safest around.

Here in the UK we do have various private bodies such as ISKA, IKF/ISCF, and now the Austria based WKF, who although are all mainly kickboxing bodies, have ventured into sanctioning MMA events. Now I read on here a year or two ago about iska sanctioning events and it was met with quite a bit of negativity with statements like "kickboxing cashing in on MMA..." and alike.. Now, using iska as an example; it's mma division is headed up (or was) by the reputable Lee Hasdell, one of the pioneers of UK MMA, these bodies have good policies and practices in place that could make a show run a lot more professional than a lot of shows are being run at the minute. Obviously there are exceptions.

These bodies also have some excellent officiating teams that also help raise standards.

So what is stopping promoters sanctioning events and operating under regulated terms?

Is it money?

I suspect that money does play a role, however, it's probably more to do with control. Why would a promoter want to sign over control to a third-party when at the minute a promoter can simply choose their own officials, chop + change things to suit their own needs, and basically do as they please. The result? = the current state of play with differing rules, practices, health and safety, etc, and not to mention the numerous 'British' and, ahem, 'European' champions. (Championship titles are a different issue altogether)


A regulating commission / governing body
This would certainly help raise standards, and in the past when I have ran kickboxing and mma shows I have sanctioned my events through the wkf (world kickboxing fed'n) who, for a fee, assisted me with:-

- Provided me with an independent supervisor to oversee refereeing and officiating
- an officiating team - referees, judges, time-keepers, etc
- conducted/overseen and recorded the weigh-in
- insist on minimum level of medical supervision
- enforced all rules & regulations in according to their pro or amateur rulebook (I must note here that the wkf amateur mma rules are not the same as a lot of people are used to, but these rules are due to be changed at the world congress in 2012 I am told)
- helped me source event insurance
- helped with match-making

They even hold mma events around the World as they are present in 103 Countries.

All in all it helped make the events run fairly and smoothly.

The only negative issue I have with these sanctioning bodies is that they have their own titles also, which does add to the confusion of the whole who's the real champion situation. On the other hand, independent promoters can request area titles, which is good.


But back to the real issue: Regulation.

Who in reality, is willing to run their bouts under nationally agreed terms?
Which promoters are willing to sanction their events and give way power (so to speak) to a third-party?

The answer unfortunately: Very few.

Fight sports do need regulating. The BBBoC is only a private LTD company, nothing more. They do a good job of regulating pro boxing. They also work with International bodies so they keep their own brand/body recognised - ie the WBC will not sanction a World title in the UK unless it is sanctioned via the BBBoC.

Can this be done with MMA? I can't see the UFC approaching a UK-body to sanction their UK events.

[SlimDavy]

Obviously fell on it's arse this.

[BakedBean]

Most have.
There are so many people attempting it you would be amazed but nobody is doing all that is required.

Well that is not completly true there are a couple of characters heading in the right direction with regards to getting recognized by Sport England but with regards to unifying the sport and governing it nobody is even a little bit close.

[SlimDavy]

People in the sport are their own worst enemy, and by that i mean people that put shows on without consistency in the rules:- amateur, amateur NSAC, semi-pro, pro-B, pro, etc... Bullshit baffles brains so if there a million different sets of rules then who puts forward the rules for amateurs and professionals to the sports council/sport England, etc? And where does smei-pro fit in? It wouldn't really.

Kickboxing's many various rules:- full contact, low kicks, k1, muay thai c/b/a classes, etc, have been going a lot longer than MMA and even they are in a sad state towards getting recognised by Sport England.