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View Full Version : Amateur, Semi-Pro and Pro MMA???



SSJ
27-04-2010, 12:14 AM
I am curious to see what the general feeling is on the UK standard format of:

Amateur = No headshots 3 x 3 mins
Semi-Pro = No head shots on ground and 2 x 5 mins
Pro = Headshots and GnP 3 x 5 mins

Who prefers the other option of:

Amateur = Headshots and GnP, 3 x 4 mins with 8oz gloves
Pro = Headshots and GnP 3 x 5 mins

I personally think that 2 x 5 mins is sometimes difficult to judge, and the 'No GnP' in semi-pro doesnt prepare fighters for pro rules.

I know fighters want to protect there 'pro' records so there needs to be a format for fighters to learn the trade of mma without damaging there 'pro' records with GnP.

There are already some MMA promotions starting to switch to the Amateur (GnP and 8oz gloves) and Pro formats and disbanding semi-pro rules. I am interested to know how many UK MMA fighters and promoters would be happy to switch to this format???

Positive debate please?

Osu!

Lee H

MMAlien
27-04-2010, 12:22 AM
In the promotion i match make for we have

Amateur A-class - Headshots standing and on the floor with 8oz gloves

&

Amateur B-class - Headshots standing only with 8oz Gloves

On shock n awe a promotion in portsmouth their Semi pro rules are the same as Amateur A-class rules. I have watched many fights in this format now and can say i fully support them for they are very entertaining and is "real MMA"

as far as Amateur with no head shots at all, i am happy to see them competed on shows like grapple strike and combat sports. but people who pay 25 a ticket and expect "cage fighting" and seeing guys fight with their hands at their waist hitting to the bodyalways feel ripped off and ask are contantly askking questions.

As for standing headshots only i have enjoyed loads of fights and find them entertaining and think that there is room for these rules too!

SSJ
27-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Good points, MMAlien.

Maybe Amateur without Headshots should be left on the Tamami mats and classed as Amateur Combat Sport MMA... and Amateur in the cage should be Amateur with GnP and 8oz gloves and 3 x 4mins.

Headshots and no headshots make a completely different sport.

The new format makes Cage MMA easier to understand.

MMAlien
27-04-2010, 12:40 AM
I personally think 3 x 4's is too long, 3 x 3's is much better. but that's my opinion. on knuckle up this weekend they have 3x4's and it was very entertaining.

as i said though i still think "semi-pro" mma with standing headshots only still belong in the cage. but under the amateur B-class banner.

Neil L
27-04-2010, 01:07 AM
Most Shows In Scotland The Semi-Pro Fights Are 3, 4Min Rounds. Which Sorts Out The Judging Problem Of The Fighters Mabey Winning A Round Each

Edit: Didnt Read The Posts Above Me Before Posting This Lol

Jogs D
27-04-2010, 09:48 AM
Hi Lee - hope everything's going OK for you my friend.... :)

Here's my take on things:-

No headshots events/rules do have their place - I wouldn't call it MMA - perhaps Combat Grappling, taking place on the mats rather than a ring/cage like you've mentioned? One of the things that makes MMA unique is the striking on the ground/gnp......

Amateur MMA rules : 3x5 mins, Sparmaster gloves, punches to the face allowed standing, but no kicks/knees/elbows to the head allowed. Kicks/knees allowed to the body and legs. On the ground, punches to the face and body allowed. No heel-hooks and neck cranks allowed.

Pro MMA rules : The usual - what we all know and love! Although personally I'd love to see knees to the head on the ground as well.... :)

I'm not sure about all this B class, C class, A class rules... I think we should just have amateur and pro MMA rules similar to what I've mentioned. if anyone wants to do no headshots events then they should do a Combat Grappling event on the mats....

Jay Evans
27-04-2010, 09:53 AM
No Headshots MMA is cool for interclubs etc?

SSJ
27-04-2010, 09:54 AM
Thanks Jogs, all is good and busy mate.

I think Amateur format must have shorter rounds than Pro so either 3 x 3 or 3 x 4, or both depending on experience.

steve_langford
27-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Who prefers the other option of:

Amateur = Headshots and GnP, 3 x 4 mins with 8oz gloves
Pro = Headshots and GnP 3 x 5 mins



I like this alot!

MMAlien
27-04-2010, 10:35 AM
But like in Amma they use their own rules for amateur with no headshots on the ground....i think these rules def have their place in the ring/cage too.

Scott
27-04-2010, 12:55 PM
How does the grappling hold up with 8oz gloves? The standard 4oz get in the way enough as it it, chokes and underhooks etc, surely 8oz gloves would kill a lot of ground techniques.

MMAlien
27-04-2010, 12:56 PM
How does the grappling hold up with 8oz gloves? The standard 4oz get in the way enough as it it, chokes and underhooks etc, surely 8oz gloves would kill a lot of ground techniques.

you would think that wouldn't you? but i hardly notice them at all!

Yetiman
27-04-2010, 01:00 PM
I've not competed yet, however when I do I would like to do amateur 3x3 headshots standing/gnp etc.

Scott
27-04-2010, 01:05 PM
you would think that wouldn't you? but i hardly notice them at all!

I haven't used the 8oz gloves so I'm just speculating, I guess it would just mean using different setups to execute the same techniques.

How about 4oz gloves but wearing boxing style headgear in amateur bouts? would this be plausable?

SSJ
27-04-2010, 02:13 PM
If both players wear 8oz then it becomes equal... With any rule set there must be adaption, innovation and playing to win by using what works, example; In semi-pro with no gnp, mount position become a secondary position etc. Alot of MMA gyms train/spar with 8oz.

Most conversations ive had re: headguards, has been negative, its very difficult to find one suitable. Some orgs have toyed with the Rugby style headgear.

In Kudo we use the Koshiki Supersafe style, but in Kudo you are allowed to headbutt, elbow and knee to the head.

All good feedback.

ashy51
27-04-2010, 02:19 PM
Does anyone know who put on the first event in the UK using the no headshot amateur rules? When did they first come about???

Big Bri
27-04-2010, 02:39 PM
Amateur = Headshots and GnP, 3 x 4 mins with 8oz gloves
Pro = Headshots and GnP 3 x 5 mins


These are the rules we use on Shock n Awe only instead of amateur we call them semi pro.

KidKimura
27-04-2010, 02:41 PM
How about 4oz gloves but wearing boxing style headgear in amateur bouts? would this be plausable?

Boxing style headgear would make escaping guillotines almost impossible.

If anything the rugby style ones that Lee mentioned would be more appropriate.

I personally would be much more eager to compete in amatuer MMA with headshots and I know quite a few people that feel the same. Its hard for someone who prefers to strike to successfully implement a game plan when they can only strike to the body.

GreekGod
27-04-2010, 02:47 PM
These are the rules we use on Shock n Awe only instead of amateur we call them semi pro.

Sounds like pretty good rules to me.. Though ii think maybe 3 x 3 minute rounds would be better, having 4 minute rounds does get you closer to the times of Pro fights.. so ii can understand that.





GG

SSJ
27-04-2010, 02:52 PM
To my knowledge the first no head-shot mma was 'Knock Down Sport Budo' format (no gloves) by Paul Lloyd Davies.

Then the Amateur Trial MMA Matches in 1998 by myself under the TFF Rings banner using the old Ronin mma gloves (8oz) imported from Holland.

Jeez, this brings back memories lol...

SSJ
02-05-2010, 11:33 AM
It would be good for more promoters to say what they think about rounds and rules etc.... Personally im in favour of an agreed format within the UK. At the moment there are quite a few different rule sets and I fear this could cause confusion to mma fans and new people or investors.

Imho I would be happy to go with:

Am 3 x 3 mins or 3 x 4mins
8oz Gloves
Headshots and gnp
No heel hooks and usual amateur no no's.

Then the no headshot format could go on to the mats and be called Combat Grappling MMA or something.

KidKimura
02-05-2010, 01:51 PM
It would be good for more promoters to say what they think about rounds and rules etc.... Personally im in favour of an agreed format within the UK. At the moment there are quite a few different rule sets and I fear this could cause confusion to mma fans and new people or investors.

Imho I would be happy to go with:

Am 3 x 3 mins or 3 x 4mins
8oz Gloves
Headshots and gnp
No heel hooks and usual amateur no no's.

Then the no headshot format could go on to the mats and be called Combat Grappling MMA or something.

Couldn't agree more with this!

kaizer
02-05-2010, 02:39 PM
As someone once said if you ain't doing headshots on the ground it ain't mma.

If you not prepared to get hit in the head whilst on the ground then stick to Judo or BJJ
it's glorified grappling if you take away the headshots.

Scott
02-05-2010, 03:23 PM
Boxing style headgear would make escaping guillotines almost impossible.

If anything the rugby style ones that Lee mentioned would be more appropriate.

I know it would make escaping chokes a lot more difficult, but at the same time 8oz would make applying chokes more difficult. I think the no headshot rule set is good for guys to get used to the occasion and deal with competing, especially as a lot don't have any other experience of competing(in bjj or boxing for example).

I would like to try both out tbh, headgear and larger gloves