Why so bashed?

[Gazza]

Hey lads once again im takling about american/wako rules kickboxing i was wondering does anyone know why it seems to be abused by all other arts lol
videos of it are never on youtube its always thai stuff
not to mention when you do see stuff about it everyone is insulting it
i hear of some good mma fighters that where kickboxers but im not sure
whether that ment thai or american.

[Iconoclast]

No elbows or clinchwork make it a poor mans Muay Thai in my opinion.

[Smiler]

Hmmm...

So boxing is therefore a poor man's kickboxing?

Smiler
http://garysmilerturner.blogspot.com/

[Yak]

its fallen out of vogue, and these days thai or k1 over it any day of the week however go look up people in the UK like say the Lawsons who were great exponents of full contact

its easier to move to boxing from kickboxing as its pretty similar ie only 6 kicks needed per round.....

and doesnt work as a cross train so well as obviously MMA is the in vogue art and so just throwing above waist kicks isnt so realistic hence the k1/muay thai employed in MMA training

used to like it and when i did light continuos (ages ago) the next step up was full contact...

nowadays you have an established amateur thai and amateur MMA circuit to get your grounding

[Yak]

its fallen out of vogue, and these days thai or k1 over it any day of the week however go look up people in the UK like say the Lawsons who were great exponents of full contact

its easier to move to boxing from kickboxing as its pretty similar ie only 6 kicks needed per round.....

and doesnt work as a cross train so well as obviously MMA is the in vogue art and so just throwing above waist kicks isnt so realistic hence the k1/muay thai employed in MMA training

used to like it and when i did light continuos (ages ago) the next step up was full contact...

nowadays you have an established amateur thai and amateur MMA circuit to get your grounding

[Iconoclast]

Hmmm...

So boxing is therefore a poor man's kickboxing?

Smiler


Nah, the similarities between boxing and kickboxing are not really close enough to compare the two styles in my opinion. The use of leg kicks makes the two far more different than kickboxing and Muay Thai for me.

I can't help but think that if you're training kickboxing, it must be in the back of your mind that you're not really learning a complete art?

Why would someone choose to learn kickboxing when they could choose Muay Thai and cover everything they'll learn in kickboxing, plus some of the most devastating striking techniques in existance, such as elbows and knees?

Disclaimer:: I am ignorant of the finer points of kickboxing though. I have never trained it so I could be talking bollocks. My opinion is based purely on what little I've seen of it.

[Gazza]

i enjoy my kickboxing very much so i guess thats all that matters? :D
il probs find a thai gym later and start it up

[Gazza]

apparently chuck is a kickboxer
maybe i should ask him :P

[Yak]

can mean anything though - kickboxing can mean the 'siny pants' and 'moonboots' type stuff , can mean with low kicks, can mean something akin to thai boxign ie using all weapons, can be k1, can be the chinese type with throws etc or even just a version of a traditional martial art with boxing gloves on

Nigel Benn used to be a kickboxer and he said he found it easy to cross over to boxing, same as a friend of mine who did the same as the footwork wasnt too difficult and he never had to worry about what he calls 'fcuking nasty lowkicks'- both said if they were starting today they would have done thai or k1 style not the above waist type....

end of the day if you are enjoying a sport then who gives a toss...if you like your kickboxing then dont worry what others say or think

if you want to fight in any other sport though then youll need to adjust...but for now no point

[Smiler]

Hi Iconclast!

Learning Thai boxing is not kickboxing, and definitely not full contact (above waist kickboxing)…completely different learning patterns.

Personally I feel that every MMAer should train in this as well as Thai boxing – the more variety you have in training the basic kicks the better, in my opinion…

Yak your last post rings real true with me…

Smiler
http://garysmilerturner.blogspot.com/

[ocuana]

I started out with "shiny pants" kickboxing. All above waist. What it did mean for me is that I was moving lighter on my feet and in fact, hand combinations/boxing came more naturally. The footwork is very different. I believe it's a great advantage to learn the two of these arts "kickboxing" and Muay Thai seperately, unless they interfere with learning/confusion.
I now understand and practice Muay Thai but still feel I can take certain pointers from shiny pants kickboxing and incorporate it without losing my Muay Thai effectiveness.
I also think we should have a great respect for both of the arts, even though I believe Muay Thai is more effective singularly; you can learn a great deal from them both.

[kickboxingidiot1]

I started out with "shiny pants" kickboxing. All above waist. What it did mean for me is that I was moving lighter on my feet and in fact, hand combinations/boxing came more naturally. The footwork is very different. I believe it's a great advantage to learn the two of these arts "kickboxing" and Muay Thai seperately, unless they interfere with learning/confusion.
I now understand and practice Muay Thai but still feel I can take certain pointers from shiny pants kickboxing and incorporate it without losing my Muay Thai effectiveness.
I also think we should have a great respect for both of the arts, even though I believe Muay Thai is more effective singularly; you can learn a great deal from them both.

Just to add to the gentleman's post above (my mate Will LOL ) , you can get KO'd in either of the 2 sports and in "shiny pants" american style kickboxing you most often get punched to the head a lot more than in thaiboxing.
Also you have to train equally hard for both disciplines.
I reiterate showing both styles respect.

[Jay Evans]

lol @ shiny pants ....... that always gets people offended!

[Yak]

but in shiny pants more often than not bar the minimum kicks its just a boxing match - so its stands to reason farhad...

i dont see a big progression for it - good guys will box as its the next closest martial art and even the footwork is so similar- as the scene fades - by that i mean the pros - or will switch - as an amateur sport i think will be ok, as its a progression from light continuos which is very popular - especially for kids

would be better if we developed a better k1 type circuit - plenty of thaiboxers can mix it - and enough shiny panters with good boxing can adapt to i think

we have the big MSA and Rumble shows in Muay Thai now - getting sky sports exposure - MMA obviously has the headline and the media coverage - nothing like this in the full contact space

i just think - personally - shiny pants will fade into more of a martial art - in that its on the same level as karate , kung fu etc etc - not in a disrespectful way but due to lots of people having come from this background into kickboxing and the lack of public interest

i think the cross train angle for MMA is better suited by k1/boxing and/or an adaptable muay thai format - lots of MMA guys will have K1 bouts or the odd thai bout on the side or as additional training - never just kickboxing (shiny pants style)

unfortunately a sign of the times and progression, full contact was the next step forward from trad martial arts in terms of allowing a sport enviroment - MMA is the leap forward from that now - and the k1/MT as seperate sports and as ones that co-exist in with the MMA

[NickKnight]

My gym is a kickboxing gym (shiny pants) and all of the pure stand up fighters are shiny pants guys, as I hope to be.

But we are also a small Gracie Barra BJJ school and mma, and as part of the mma low kicks, knees and elbows are all thrown in.

I see full contact kickboxing as combining the kicks of TKD with Boxing. If you watch a top class kickboxing bout you will see many spinning hook kicks, cresent kicks, axe kicks etc. But as the guys don't stand their with their hands by their waist like in TKD it is more technical with the boxing combined.

[kickboxingidiot1]

but in shiny pants more often than not bar the minimum kicks its just a boxing match - so its stands to reason farhad...

i dont see a big progression for it - good guys will box as its the next closest martial art and even the footwork is so similar- as the scene fades - by that i mean the pros - or will switch - as an amateur sport i think will be ok, as its a progression from light continuos which is very popular - especially for kids

would be better if we developed a better k1 type circuit - plenty of thaiboxers can mix it - and enough shiny panters with good boxing can adapt to i think

we have the big MSA and Rumble shows in Muay Thai now - getting sky sports exposure - MMA obviously has the headline and the media coverage - nothing like this in the full contact space

i just think - personally - shiny pants will fade into more of a martial art - in that its on the same level as karate , kung fu etc etc - not in a disrespectful way but due to lots of people having come from this background into kickboxing and the lack of public interest

i think the cross train angle for MMA is better suited by k1/boxing and/or an adaptable muay thai format - lots of MMA guys will have K1 bouts or the odd thai bout on the side or as additional training - never just kickboxing (shiny pants style)

unfortunately a sign of the times and progression, full contact was the next step forward from trad martial arts in terms of allowing a sport enviroment - MMA is the leap forward from that now - and the k1/MT as seperate sports and as ones that co-exist in with the MMA

Perfectly Valid point there Noel ;)