Why no structure to bjj training?

[alberto]

Is it still the norm to have the 'relaxed' method to training in bjj?

i.e. no real structure to the training or progression of students.

Do most clubs still operate a "you will get graded when your instructor thinks you're ready" mentality?

Found this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5lmQsWT5M

Some good skills, and looks like this is a more organized and structured way to reward students ...

Just a thought. :D

[DarkBlue62]

That was awesome. I would love it if everywhere was like that. Pro's and cons for both ways though.

[Simon Hayes]

You want a reward bro?

[Rob T]

Is it still the norm to have the 'relaxed' method to training in bjj?

i.e. no real structure to the training or progression of students.

Which clubs have no structure to their training? Shitty clubs.



Do most clubs still operate a "you will get graded when your instructor thinks you're ready" mentality?

This is not a "mentality", it is the best way to grade people. I don't care how many techniques someone can drill correctly, can they apply them against a fully resisting opponent? Can they fight?



Found this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5lmQsWT5M

Some good skills, and looks like this is a more organized and structured way to reward students ...

Just a thought. :D

That is just a demo which his students can choose to do if they want. It does not determine whether they get promoted or not.

[david5]

you know what my reward is? being awesome!

true story

[alberto]

You want a reward bro?

I think if everyone who trains wants rewarded for their hard work, dedication, and money spent! :o

I have heard and seen footage of experienced grapplers stating "my goals for this coming year is to gain my blue belt / purple belt" etc... So its not just newbies wanting a black belt in a few years to show off down the pub.

My main point is that people have previously stated "dont worry about gradings / progressing, your instructor will grade you when ready"... and "I dont care if I get graded or not as long as im getting better"..

Well, yeah I agree to a certain extent that theres no point kidding yourself on just because you show a movement in a 'grading' one day then hey presto you have a funky new belt to buy.. i.e. karate katas ...

But I think if everyone is honest with themselves, if you were to train for 8 years in bjj and you still werent graded (and others were) then I guarantee you wouldnt still be saying "well im getting better, this white belt kinda suits me anyway :confused:"...

If it is up to your instructor to decide, well what if he cant stand you since you stink of B.O and have doses of ringworm every week?! ;)

Would it not be better for the progression of bjj, a modern martial art it may be, that it lays down some sort of structure (worldwide) so everyones singing off the same sheet..

again, just a thought...

[alberto]

That is just a demo which his students can choose to do if they want. It does not determine whether they get promoted or not.

My bad if I got it wrong.
Just presumed since it was titled purple belt exam, and he gets given / awarded belt at end of vid. Some silky skills on show whatever it is

[Neil_D]

If your club has no training structure then you're at the wrong club surely.

[Rob T]

If someone has problems which will stop the instructor promoting them, the instructor should tell them. I would.

A set syllabus wouldn't help anything. Then you'd have people who could drill every technique perfectly and expect a belt even though they suck in sparring. Those Roy Dean videos highlight this... watch the blue belt one; the guy looks mega slick drilling but in sparring he looks just like a white/blue belt.

If someone has been training 8 years and hasn't been promoted then they, and probably their instructor, really suck.

[ITALICOZETA]

@alberto
if you train in a submission grappling club, unless its luta livre (they can have belts system) your reward would be to be able to perform techniques also in a full sparring contest, same as bjj with gi.
a belt is visible as well the ability to perform. in a grappling club you wouldnt have any reward or belt or level, still your reward would be the ability of defeat a sparring partner in a full sparring grappling.

and if you train in bjj dont worry,you will feel good having the same belt for 3 or more years (example) and being at your top game.

[the mid 90's]

I think BJJ is better with out the structured grading, just because some one can remember a series of movements doesn't mean they can do them in a live situation.

Same as if a white belt triangles a Purple, doesn't instantly warrant him getting his blue, the instructor will be keeping a eye on him and will probably roll with him to see if he is ready.
It seems more organic that way IMO.

Also I think the best way to go out and really see if you're worth your next belt (if you really care) is to compete against people better than you that way even if you're not going up the belt ranks you're still proving you're on the same skill level as some one with a higher belt rank than you.

But they're only for holding your pants up any way.

[liamwandi]

Hi Alberto,

I must say from your thread title I expected a different post :)

If you are lucky enough to live near a bjj club (or more) and you are lucky enough to afford the time, money and energy to train, then that's a fantastic opportunity to learn this wonderful art and sport.

No structure to training? Some clubs may lack that. I have trained at a few and they all seemed to have at least some structure to both the individual sessions and how these sessions form part of the whole.

At the Labs, we have a 20 week rotational curriculum in the fundamentals sessions to make sure if you miss a topic due to a holiday/injury...etc. it is covered again in the not too far future. Over, say, two years of consistent training this is repeated approximately 4-5 times. This has produced great results. Our chief instructor David Onuma recently promoted our first batch of blue belts and he had lots of praise for how well-rounded they were when sparring against resistance.

But that's structure in training, not grading.

No one should be graded in BJJ simply because they can show a set number of moves against a compliant partner (at least not in most clubs and organisations). I suppose nothing stops an instructor from doing that, but she will know if that student was to roll with a freshly graded student from another club where the ability to roll (technically) had been truely tested they will be tapping like a woodpecker.

On the surface, I must say the whole "you will get graded when your instructor thinks you're ready" may seem a little loosely defined but in all fairness the reality is a different matter. The absolute majority of people I've rolled with over the past 6-7 years have had skills that correspond with the colour of their belt.

When you roll, you can't hide behind the colour of a belt. You can't hide behind a shiney pretty gi. You can't hide.

You can sometimes hide behind your strength and size, but not for long.

As for structure, there are only 5 belts in adult BJJ (white, blue, purple, brown and black) and it takes a long time between white and black. Many many years. Simple maths will tell you that there will be a spectrum of skill-levels WITHIN each belt, since most people take a number of years between belts. It is not uncommon for two purple belts to both look and feel like purple belts but when they roll with each other there is clear difference of skill and ability. Add to that the factor that Jiu jitsu is a huge art with many positions and you will quickly see that by purple belt level (for example) players will have specialities and they might catch another player from the same belt with their speciality during a 5-10 minute roll. It happens. It doesn't take away from either belt holder (all other factors staying the same).

Another thing. When David did the grading, he also gave 4-stripes to some white belts and told them exactly what they need to work on in order to make that jump to blue. That was a great opportunity for them to learn from a highly experienced teacher and black belt how to best structure their Open Mat time for the coming months-year. Could he have done it without the stripes? sure, but that is his chosen method. Our job now is to remind them at every opportunity what those priorities are.

As for the Roy Dean method of offering students the opportunity to showcase their skills against a compliant partner, it's a nice way to show what BJJ is. If I've heard the following once, I've heard it a million times:

"So Liam, how's that Kung fu stuff that you do going?" followed by a 45 degree chopping motion and a noise.

As it's been explained here on the thread, that's not the only way Roy grades. They are just demos and an opportunity to show your wife or husband that you can do funky shizzle with your legs!

Grading in BJJ is, IMO, a dot in continuous line. It's part of a learning curve. Your instructor's job is to follow and guide your progress in BJJ in the months and years you train at his or her academy.

Sorry for the waffle :)

[alberto]

Sorry for the waffle :)

Not a waffle at all dude.

Cheers for your reply

[the mid 90's]

At the Labs, we have a 20 week rotational curriculum in the fundamentals sessions to make sure if you miss a topic due to a holiday/injury...etc. it is covered again in the not too far future. Over, say, two years of consistent training this is repeated approximately 4-5 times. This has produced great results. Our chief instructor David Onuma recently promoted our first batch of blue belts and he had lots of praise for how well-rounded they were when sparring against resistance.

Every club should do this, some times learning a new thing every lesson can get annoying, it's good to have a beginners class to go to and just keep perfecting fundamentals.

[TheDoctor!!]

Alberto tell us a bit about your situation, are you a student who doesnt have structure and would like it, or are you a teacher looking to improve your gym??? am curious so very interested in ur reply. thanks

[liamwandi]

it's good to have a beginners class to go to and just keep perfecting fundamentals.

I know what you mean. I used to teach every Fundamentals session but now I make sure I teach one and Martyn teaches one so I can jump in and drill drill drill.

[zippy]

Rewards:- keeping fit, learning skills, good training partners, team work, friendship, real abilities and opportunities to train with some of the finest grapplers in the world.

[Deepthroat]

When you win some medals, tap most of the same belts and maybe tap some higher belts your ready for the next belt.....not before!

[Benny]

In my opinion, you start smashing blue belts then your instructer will reconise this and award you simple as, still not been awarded anything? smash the purple belts.. still not been awarded? guess what smash the brown belts! still nothing smash the instructor!

for anyone who says they dont feel their being taught due to personal hygene or bad attitude, get on the mat and spar. the more you practise the better you get if you have been training 8 years and still a white belt then im inclined to believe you turn up once a month get your ass wooped then come back in another month.

I got my black belt in taekwondo in like 3 years and when i got that it was meh, getting just a tab in BJJ i felt over the frickin moon becouse i had trained hard and beaten people who were better then me when i started, I tapped over 1000's of times but each time i got tapped i learnt from it and found the escapes..

Moral of the story Spar > Win > Be happy knowing your skills show you reward enough.