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Thread: Tap or Snap??

  1. #1

    Default Tap or Snap??

    at the recent grapple & strike 12 show we had a fighter shout out when in a back hammer lock, he didn't tap. the rules of grapple & strike state that if you are in a compromised position and shout out the fight will be stopped as a verbal submission.

    what do you think, should referees jump in and protect fighters from themselves or should they wait for the tap and risk the snap?? this could either be for amateur or pro (ufc) level.
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  2. #2
    ooooo had to hurt Wiegieboard's Avatar
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    It really depends on wether you want to snap bones/ possibly have your bones snapped.
    I agree that if someone shouts out, then that should be it.
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  3. #3

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    Sounds like the referee did exactly the right thing.

    The referee's role is to ensure the fight is carried out to the rules and ensure fighter safety.

    If a fighter appears to be in a position where their safety is at risk, the fight should be stopped.

    If a fighter shouts out in the middle of a fight, the referee can only assume that they are in pain and potentially seriously injured - especially if the lock isn't plainly visible to the ref. It would be irresponsible not to stop the fight at that point. Not stopping the fight when a fighter is shouting out would also be more than is reasonable to ask of anyone in the referree position.

  4. #4

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    In my mind if you get a situation such as someone stuck in an armbar with their arm hyper extended almost snapping then the ref should stop the fight in exactly the same as he should if someone's on the floor getting pounded with no defence.

    Fighter safety first, even if the fighter doesn't want it, as lets be honest, not everyone knows what's good for them.

  5. #5

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    in one way its good that the ref jump in and stopped it before the snap. saves the fighter from loosing pride, sounds stupid but some guys just do not tap. although a fighter could allways argue that he wasnt in any pain some guys are very flexible and what may look like a broken or twisted bone isint just like in royce v hughes imagine if the ref would have jumped in then.

  6. #6
    Senior Member wagon's Avatar
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    At the lower levels I think that a verbal submission (scream of pain) is enough to stop a fight. This needs to be clearly communicated at the fighters meeting though.

    But as a Pro fighter I'd say it's down to the fighters. I'd be pretty pissed if I was fighting for a big title and the ref stepped his cos he thought I was in a spot of bother but I hadn't tapped.

  7. #7
    Rosi Sexton
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    In a professional fight, a referee shouldn't stop a fight on a joint lock just because it looks like it's on. With G&P, it's usually possible to tell when a fighter's taking too many hard shots and if he looks like he's not able to defend himself. With joint locks, because of individual variations in flexibility, it's really not possible to say for certain whether a lock is about to break the joint or not. Only the fighter knows - which is why it's up to him to tap.

    A shout/scream can reasonably be seen as a verbal submission though and it's fair enough for the ref to step in at that point. If you don't want the fight stopped - keep quiet about it!

    Either way, though, these things should definitely be made clear at the rules meeting so nobody's left in any doubt. At amateur and semi pro level, I guess it's up for debate how much fighters should be protected from themselves.
    Last edited by Rosi; 08-06-2007 at 05:29 PM.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by wagon View Post

    But as a Pro fighter I'd say it's down to the fighters. I'd be pretty pissed if I was fighting for a big title and the ref stepped his cos he thought I was in a spot of bother but I hadn't tapped.
    UFC 48. Sylvia v Mir. Even pro's need to be told to stop sometimes.

  9. #9
    Tez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme-ma View Post
    UFC 48. Sylvia v Mir. Even pro's need to be told to stop sometimes.
    Perhaps especially pro fighters? They are the ones who have more to lose so are more likely not to tap when they should.

  10. #10
    Rosi Sexton
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    UFC 48. Sylvia v Mir. Even pro's need to be told to stop sometimes.
    Disagree. A broken arm is rarely life threatening. If you don't tap, you live with the consequences. When you consider that a fighters whole career can depend on the outcome of one fight, I think they should have the responsibility of making the decision because only they know what is at stake for them.

    As I said before, G&P is a different kettle of fish - firstly, brain injuries are on a whole different level from broken joints, and people CAN die from being punched in the head too much; secondly, a fighter may not be able to tap out due to being not entirely conscious; thirdly, in a fight being punched in the head doesn't hurt nearly as much as having a joint broken, so fighters are less inclined to tap - some will just choose to get punched until they're unconscious. Very few in the end choose to have their joints broken. It's so rare, I don't think we need protecting from it.
    Last edited by Rosi; 08-06-2007 at 07:39 PM.
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