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Thread: Carlson Gracie BJJ & Helio Gracie BJJ

  1. #11
    steve_langford
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    that quote is great..

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Hayes View Post
    Carlson's style is all about fighting for a dominant position, a position that in a real street fight or MMA match will keep you out of harms way. Fight from the top and finish the fight with a submission.
    Guard should be used if top position cannot be attained,but not in favour of top position.Of course guard is very important,and an aggressive guard,searching for sweeps and submissions will unsettle and break the posture of your opponent,but playing guard puts you in bottom posiiton
    and when strikes are allowed,guard puts you at a disadvantage,so it shouldn't be taken in favour of top position.
    At all times during the fight,whether a jiu jitsu match,mma fight,or street fight every effort should be made to impose every ounce of body weight
    and pressure available to wear down your opponent.The pressure imposed should be such that when you finally go for the submission your opponent is pleased he can finally tap.

    The lighter guys in the Carlson Team were forced to develop amazing guards because they were rarely able to take top position against guys like Amaury Bitteti and Mario Sperry who are guard passing machines.

    Basically,The Natural got it right in the last post when he said Carlson's philosophy was to smash the opponent.

    Carlson was also a very keen advocate of cross training and encouraged his guys to study boxing and wrestling as well as Judo and train with weights..This was rare in the Gracie family at the time,where it was felt that
    Gracie Jiu Jitsu was enough on its own.

    In London we honour Carlson's legacy by offering Muay Thai,mma and Judo
    as well as weights to our students and encouraging them to train in them at no extra charge.

    Carlson was also,arguably, the first member of the family to share everything he knew with his students.

    2 great stories about Carlson.When he was a young teenager,Helio and Carlos set him up for a Vale Tudo fight on a concrete tennis court to settle a dispute.They expected him to use the jiu jitsu they had taught him.
    He got the takedown,mounted and then proceeded to punch his opponents face in until he tapped,not use an arm bar or choke.

    During the great Jiu Jitsu vs Luta Livre wars that were televised Vale Tudo
    grudge matches,Carlson was chosen by the Gracie family to put together
    a team of the best jiu jitsu fighters to defend the arts honour.These fighters came from different teams,not just Carlsons,the guys were handpicked as the best there were available.
    Much to the shock of the guys chosen from different teams (but not to Carlson's own guys) Carlson instructed the team that he didn't want the Jiu Jitsu team to submit their Luta Livre opponents with anything but strikes.
    He told the Luta Livre guys that his team were so tough and that Jiu Jitsu was so dominant that they wouldn't even have to use it to win,that his Jiu Jitsu team would just smash the Luta Livre guys faces in.


    We talk nowadays about No Gi Judo,and Karo-Well watch Carlson's Judo ability without a Kimono to grip in this fight.

    OOOOSSSS
    Simon,

    Excellent post..inspirational stuff

    Thanx..

  3. #13

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    rolls was best gracie.helio an carlson teach him.he very crazee guy.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Hayes View Post
    Carlson was also a very keen advocate of cross training and encouraged his guys to study boxing and wrestling as well as Judo and train with weights..This was rare in the Gracie family at the time,where it was felt that
    Gracie Jiu Jitsu was enough on its own.

    I agree with pretty much everything in your post except the above quote. Carlson encouraged his guys to train boxing but not so much wrestling and Judo. It was Rolls who actually was the biggest advocate of cross training of the Gracies and learned alot of wrestling from Bob Anderson. He was credited the most for incorporated wrestling and Judo into BJJ. He introduced many sambo techniques to BJJ and played an instrumental role in the development of the BJJ of today. After all the other Gracies saw how Rolls was benefiting in tournaments they started cross training.
    Last edited by Bicho; 21-03-2009 at 08:35 PM.

  5. #15

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    You are basing all your claims on what you have read in 'The Gracie Way'.

    Yes,Roll's was an advocate of Cross Training.Who trained Rolls? Carlson.

    Have you watched any of Carlson's fights?

    Have you spoken to any of his Black Belts about the training regimens he had them follow?

    'The Gracie Way' is a great book.Inspirational stuff,but it is one mans opinion of the Gracie's (Kid Pelligro's) and his 'favourite' Gracie's get a better
    press than others.

    If i remember correctly,Relson and Rillion aren't even mentioned.

  6. #16

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    lol flexa told me. Roberto Leite took several black belts from carlson gracie and trained them in wrestling everyday for a year. Took them also out to the wrestsling championships of brasilia (city) where everyone places first if i remember correctly
    Insert whiny message

  7. #17

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    pretty sure george mehdi trained a lot of carlson's guys in judo
    man, when you're the nail, hang in there....until the day you become the hammer

  8. #18

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    also this whole vs thingy is pretty darn stupid..but heck.. its the same sport.

    both camps got guys who where well rounded in top and bottem or beter at one way.
    Delariva guard.. is a guard for a reason.
    Insert whiny message

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jogs D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Hayes View Post
    You are basing all your claims on what you have read in 'The Gracie Way'.

    Yes,Roll's was an advocate of Cross Training.Who trained Rolls? Carlson.

    Have you watched any of Carlson's fights?

    Have you spoken to any of his Black Belts about the training regimens he had them follow?

    'The Gracie Way' is a great book.Inspirational stuff,but it is one mans opinion of the Gracie's (Kid Pelligro's) and his 'favourite' Gracie's get a better
    press than others.

    If i remember correctly,Relson and Rillion aren't even mentioned.

    Not sure about Rillion but I hear Relson had a big-time bust-up with Peligro, hence he wasn't included in the book. Shame really because going by Renzo's documentary I'm sure there'd be some interesting stories to tell along with the fact he brought BJJ/MMA to Hawaii.

    Also I hear Relson's Jiu-Jitsu is also about smashing your opponent and more geared to street-fighting and quite similar to Carlsons (unlike Helio/Rorion)....

  10. #20
    Its not his cup you can feel.... Mike Bishop's Avatar
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    I haven't watched this Renzo documentary that everyone's raving about yet. What did you think of it ?

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