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Thread: Amateur careers?

  1. #21
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    The biggist problem for some people is simply that the no head shot amature rules may not fit there style. I have had 2 amt fights one draw and one lose but really felt out of my game without head shots. Some may have seen me KO my opponent at uk mma league event in nottingham this was because without head shots i was lost, Being from a muay thai background striking is natural and instinctive to me. For this reason i am really looking to turn semi pro asap Ok so i am not saying i have no ground game i train with a great team and am building my hole game but i will always be a striker. I would love to be able to compete at an amature level but with head shots but the events just arnt out there for it so semi pro and pro is often the only way to go as soon as possible

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    Because there is a greater demand for MMA shows than there is availability of good pro fighters there will be promoters who need pro fighters regardless of level. If you have the choice of being paid or not being paid to do the same thing then what are you going to chose?

    With this lack of competition for places there is no need to invest time and effort in amatuer career in the same way there is in boxing where a strong amatuer background is the best path to the pro ranks.

    So what is the incentive to have an amatuer career beyond not messing up your pro record?

    As for different rule sets, these are a neccessity to differentiate between Pro and Amatuer. Boxing rules are different between the ranks and MMA should follow the same path. Shorter fights, heavier gloves and removal of dangerous techniques are all required for amatuer MMA but I do agree that head shots are required to make it MMA (says the guy with the 4 semi-pro fights and only 1 pro fight to his name).

    Only a governing body who has certain medical requirements for pro fights will allow the changes people are discussing and we all know the governing body is just a dream.

  3. #23

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    If everybody did it the 'Alex Owen' way, the UK would be a very strong force in MMA, Alex did what most fighters dont have the patience to do. I also think age has a part to play in it, If a fighter is over age X then obv they will be restrained some what with 'time' not on their side to perhaps get a good amateur background before going pro.

    As Aaron said though a good amount of time of at least a couple of years Amateur would be beneficial some what and stand the fighter in good stead for a Pro career.

    The other thing against going Amateur though is the head shots, head shots ARE a part of skills in MMA as in my mind are elbows, the complete GnP game so I can also understand why fighters dont want to search and wait around for the one or two shows that allow head shots as they are few and far between.

    As for Semi Pro huff dont swear lol
    Amateur and Pro thats all Im saying lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpy View Post
    The biggist problem for some people is simply that the no head shot amature rules may not fit there style. I have had 2 amt fights one draw and one lose but really felt out of my game without head shots. Some may have seen me KO my opponent at uk mma league event in nottingham this was because without head shots i was lost, Being from a muay thai background striking is natural and instinctive to me. For this reason i am really looking to turn semi pro asap Ok so i am not saying i have no ground game i train with a great team and am building my hole game but i will always be a striker. I would love to be able to compete at an amature level but with head shots but the events just arnt out there for it so semi pro and pro is often the only way to go as soon as possible
    Simpy, you don't appear to have a problem with the concept of an amateur career, but rather the basterdised rule set that appear of have developed for amateurs to fight under. I agree with that, although it is a seperate discussion. There are shows that offer reall amateur MMA, i.e. with headshots. Would you agree that would be a good start to an MMA career

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Shrek View Post
    Because there is a greater demand for MMA shows than there is availability of good pro fighters there will be promoters who need pro fighters regardless of level. If you have the choice of being paid or not being paid to do the same thing then what are you going to chose?

    With this lack of competition for places there is no need to invest time and effort in amatuer career in the same way there is in boxing where a strong amatuer background is the best path to the pro ranks.

    So what is the incentive to have an amatuer career beyond not messing up your pro record?

    As for different rule sets, these are a neccessity to differentiate between Pro and Amatuer. Boxing rules are different between the ranks and MMA should follow the same path. Shorter fights, heavier gloves and removal of dangerous techniques are all required for amatuer MMA but I do agree that head shots are required to make it MMA (says the guy with the 4 semi-pro fights and only 1 pro fight to his name).

    Only a governing body who has certain medical requirements for pro fights will allow the changes people are discussing and we all know the governing body is just a dream.
    Your first point doesn't make any sense. If we had a solid amateur sport, then promoters wouldn't be hunting for inexperienced novice pros, they would put on amateur shows and everything would be wonderful. The sport at the moment is like "The emporers new clothes"..... fighters turn pro quickly because they aren't getting the right amateur opportunities, but the promotors aren't putting on amateur shows, because there aren't enough fighters taking the amateur route.

    As for fighters choosing to be paid over not being paid, isn't that the same choice that boxers have, yet they still manage to understand the value of an amateur career. MMA fighters shouldn't be chasing the pro tag, they should take their career a bit more seriously and aim to learn their trade through the amateur ranks, before becoming a better pro.

    I don't have an issue with the comments on the rules. There should probably be some differences between AM MMA and PRO MMA, in order to protect the novice fighters

    I still don't see anything but positives in developing the amateur ranks, encouraging fighters to take that path and therefore imporving the sport at both amateur and pro level...... but it will take fighters, coaches and promotors to all work towards this.... I doubt that will happen...

    ... at the end of the day it is the fighters choice if he wants to grow as an amateur, before turning pro and I don't believe many fighters will take that route as they are focused on being in the UFC.... even if that means too soon
    Last edited by ReD_mIst; 07-01-2009 at 02:46 PM.

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    I'd be interested in reading some more comments from fighters.... why wouldn't a fighter want a good amateur grounding before turning pro? What's the benefit of jumping straight in at the pro level?

  7. #27

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    Would you say the same can be done as a semi pro? Even with the no gnp rules, you can still build a decent foundation of experience to take with you into a pro fight. Thats what im doing anyway.
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    Good thread,

    I personally think having some amateur and semi-pro experience before going pro is a good thing and intend to have at least 10 fights at those levels before even thinking about going pro.

    however i do also think there should be a slightly different rule set for amateur to offer more protection to novice fighters, otherwise if you use the same rules as pro you carry the risk of very experienced guys choosing to fight amateur and then seriously hurting novices.

    Aaron, you point out that the no head shot MMA is pretty much useless, yet you say that Alex Owen is a perfect example of how it should be done, he had 29 fights under no head shot rules before progressing so you've contradicted yourself.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReD_mIst View Post
    Your first point doesn't make any sense. If we had a solid amateur sport, then promoters wouldn't be hunting for inexperienced novice pros, they would put on amateur shows and everything would be wonderful. The sport at the moment is like "The emporers new clothes"..... fighters turn pro quickly because they aren't getting the right amateur opportunities, but the promotors aren't putting on amateur shows, because there aren't enough fighters taking the amateur route.

    As for fighters choosing to be paid over not being paid, isn't that the same choice that boxers have, yet they still manage to understand the value of an amateur career. MMA fighters shouldn't be chasing the pro tag, they should take their career a bit more seriously and aim to learn their trade through the amateur ranks, before becoming a better pro.

    I don't have an issue with the comments on the rules. There should probably be some differences between AM MMA and PRO MMA, in order to protect the novice fighters

    I still don't see anything but positives in developing the amateur ranks, encouraging fighters to take that path and therefore imporving the sport at both amateur and pro level...... but it will take fighters, coaches and promotors to all work towards this.... I doubt that will happen...

    ... at the end of the day it is the fighters choice if he wants to grow as an amateur, before turning pro and I don't believe many fighters will take that route as they are focused on being in the UFC.... even if that means too soon

    It isn't the same choice as boxers have as there are currently no benefits to an amatuer career beyond gaining experience.

    The difference between boxing and MMA is there competition to become a pro boxer, they wont just pay any bum and there are licences etc. to be gained before you can take part in a pro boxing bout (ignoring unlicensed boxing as it's a nonsense) but there is not that barrier for people promoting or competing in pro MMA.

    Plus due to boxing's status as an olympic sport there is council/government funding available to boxing gyms/boxers competing in high level competitions. There are well respected amatuer competitions both nationally and internationally in amatuer boxing.

    None of these exist in amatuer MMA so where is the incentive to develop as an amatuer rather than as a pro?

    Developing a strong amatuer base to increase the quality of UK fighters is a great idea but there is currently no incentive towards it or any mechanism to set it up without a governing body. We need an MMABC but we're not going to get one.

    As to your last post about opinions from fighters, as someone who's just moving towards his second pro fight after a short (4 fight) semi-pro career I feel well placed to answer this.

    There are no match ups at an amatuer or semi-pro level that are good for me and I would be sandbagging to fight AM/SP. There are no rewards in terms of prestige in winning AM/SP fights and if i want to fight under full rules I need to wait for the few shows that offer that to come around.

    If there was a well developed amatuer circuit with good standards, good rules and responsible promoters I would get involved as that would be the way things are done. However to develop this would require a re-engineering or UK MMA.
    Last edited by Allan Shrek; 07-01-2009 at 03:12 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVI4 View Post
    Would you say the same can be done as a semi pro? Even with the no gnp rules, you can still build a decent foundation of experience to take with you into a pro fight. Thats what im doing anyway.
    Personally I think Semi pro is a joke. What does that mean? it's like a half step between AM and Pro..... surely if we had a decent Amateur version of the sport, SP wouldn't be needed it all and novice inexperienced fighters like yourself would be able to stay focused in the amateurs until ready to go pro

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