Found this article from the Sun of all places, quite interesting:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2136785.ece
MMA fight in Victorian times
Found this article from the Sun of all places, quite interesting:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2136785.ece
This book is excellent on the subject
It documents a 'freed' African slave who fought his way to freedom from the southern states of America to England to contend (And win but not win) the British heavyweight title. Its an amazing story and it documents full Vale udo style fights in the southern States of Missisipi but on by the Slave Owners were they pitted fighters against each other to the death. These fights unlike the pugilist sports in England were to the death and included ground fighting and kicking (Mainly Savate style). I recommend this book to everyone on this forum:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Ajax-G.../dp/0006499813
further reading here:
http://roninway.blogspot.com/
And a review here:
In this marvellously original novel Mr. MacDonald Fraser fully deploys his ability to create the very feel of another age in the way he has done humorously in the Flashman novels and seriously in "Mr.American". This book immerses us in the prizefighting world of Regency England but the author does not write of the past, but rather of another present, different to our own, and he makes it live not only though its own speech patterns and slang, but by conveying the values, expectations and cultural norms of the time, as expressed in daily life. There is no overt judgement here of the rights and wrongs of that society, with its acceptance of exploitation, economic, social, sexual and racial, on a scale inconceivable in modern Western Society, and this makes the implicit condemnation all the stronger. This is not a polemic however and one is reminded throughout how basic qualities of human decency, courage and compassion - no less than of greed and cruelty - are unchanging with time. The story - a true one - is complex, exciting and thought-provoking. The technique employed, a series of narratives from different viewpoints and from different observers or participants, none the main character, is an inherently difficult one to pull off successfully, but Mr. MacDonald Fraser manages it brilliantly. Each narrator has his or her own uniquely personal style and many are not reporting - but rather justifying themselves or establishing a personal stake on the basis of recollections that may or may not be totally accurate. The range of characterisation through reminiscence is stunning - from the proudly-conscious sadism of a Louisiana plantation owner, to the cynicism of a wealthy Havana brothel-keeper whom we have first encountered as an innocent and terrified slave girl, to the absolute amorality of the alcohol-sodden Flashman Senior (father of the immortal Harry) to the rough decency of English prize-fighters. The use of period style and slang is masterful. The author has obviously immersed himself in the writings of Pierce Egan (who features in the cast) and many of the pages of "Black Ajax" might indeed go undetected as being of later date if inserted among the chronicles of the original Tom and Jerry, while I am still uncertain whether the contribution of William Hazlitt (who also appears) is an extract from his actual writings or a recreation by Mr.MacDonald Fraser. In summary - a splendid novel. One thirsts for more in similar vein....
Bareknuckle Boxing - Brief History of Bill Richmond and Thomas Molineux
I originaly posted this on a Mixed Martial Arts forum I frequent, it was a discussion about the ethnic origins of Londoners historically speaking and seeing as it was political section of a combat sports Forum I tried to explain the historical multiracial makeup of London in terms of the recorded reports concerning pugalism.
Quote:
The history of Boxing and the story of one champion bare knuckle boxer in particular are the best indication of this multi-culturalism within London.
BORN A SLAVE in Cuckhold, Staten Island, NY, Bill Richmond became one of boxing's most accomplished and respected fighters of the late-18th and early 19th centuries. While in his early teens, Richmond came to the attention of British general Earl Percy, who was then the commanding general of British forces in New York during America's War of Independence.
Percy took Richmond in after the lad, weighing less than 160 pounds, had acquitted himself nicely in a tavern brawl with several Redcoats. Richmond's success continued in contests, arranged by Percy as entertainment for his guests, against New York-based British soldiers.
In 1777, Percy sent Richmond to England to apprentice as a carpenter. It was in England that Richmond earned his ring laurels. He created and honed a style of side stepping and/or dodging the bull rushes of opponents. Three of his more noteworthy wins during the late-1700s were against George Moore, Paddy Green, and Frank Mayers.
Organized fights were few, but Richmond's success continued into the 19th century, although he did suffer a third-round kayo loss to George Maddox (KO 3) at Wimbledon Commons in 1803. After a pair of victories in 1805, he squared off with contender Tom Cribb on Oct. 8, in Hailsham in Sussex.
Although the 42-year-old Richmond, known now as the Black Terror, gave away 18 years and more than 20 pounds, he gave the Englishman all he could handle. Cribb won the 90-minute contest and within two years beat Jem Belcher for the world title. But it only took Cribb 35 minutes to beat Belcher.
Although he entered the ring infrequently after that, Richmond fought several more times before retiring in 1818 after a third-round kayo win over Jack Carter. He was 55.
Richmond also developed a friendship with Thomas Molineaux, a freed American slave who came to England to pursue boxing. Richmond trained Molineaux for his memorable bouts with Cribb.
In his later years Richmond ran a boxing academy in London and died there on Dec. 28, 1829, at age 66.
http://www.ibhof.com/richmond.htm
Bill Richmond and his student (From America - an escaped Slave) Tom Molineaux, I urge anyone interested in combat sports to look into the two fighters above. Why? Well....
Quote:
Background
It is December of 1810. Britain is the only country with a large, organized boxing establishment--and boxing in Britain has entered its golden age. The Queensberry Rules do not yet exist. Boxing is bareknuckled. Its rules are simple and few:
* Fights are with bare fists
* No kicking, biting, gouging, or elbowing
* Grappling and throws are allowed above the waist
* A round ends when one fighter is knocked down. Fighters are given 30 seconds to rest, and the next round begins
* There are no judges to score the bout. The fight only ends with complete unconsciousness from one of the fighters or when a fighter quits.
It is an era of high patriotic feeling--Napoleon is reigning over most of the continent, and Britain has been waging a costly war against him for years. This bellicose, war-ridden environment is perfect for pugilism, which is flourishing. Although well-known and well-attended during the 18th century, bareknuckle pugilism reached its peak in Britain in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. A succession of brilliant champions--Daniel Mendoza, John Jackson, Jem Belcher, Henry Pearce, John Gully--made their appearance. Right now, the champion is Tom Cribb, who many hail as the greatest of the lot. He is 30, at the height of his powers, and undefeated.
Tom Cribb
Height--5'10" Weight--Around 200lbs
Cribb was a hard, accurate puncher. While considered by some critics to be slow, Cribb's style was awkward and effective. He was a skilled man in the ring, and his style gave many of the best of his era considerable problems. He was also quite strong, a good wrestler (important in those days), and incredibly durable--he took massive beatings in many of his fights and refused to quit.
Enter Tom Molineaux. Molineaux was a former slave from America. He learned English pugilism, of a sort, in order to fight in the brutal matches that slave owners arranged from time to time between their slaves. When he came to England, he was still considered an extremely crude fighter, but time and the tutelage of Bill Richmond (another former slave and a skilled pugilist) slowly managed to shape Molineaux into a very dangerous fighter. By 1810, he had defeated Tom Blake--the major challenger to Cribb's title--and put forward a challenge to Cribb himself.
Tom Molineaux
Height--5'8" Weight--About 200lbs
Molineaux was a tough, durable fighter. In his fights with Cribb and Blake, he showed himself able to take a huge amount of punishment--perhaps the only man tougher than Molineaux at the time was Cribb himself. Molineaux was also a massive puncher, having blown out Blake and an earlier, unnamed Bristol fighter quite handily. He was also very strong and had incredible endurance. The only weak point in his armor was his relative lack of skill--while Richmond managed to eliminate some of his stylistic problems, the raw edges were still obvious.
Cribb was in a state of semi-retirement by this point, and had been looking forward to the quite life. Unfortunately, the quiet life looked like it had to be put off for a while--all of England was calling for Cribb to beat the upstart. People who had never been interested in pugilism before were suddenly enthralled by the possibility of the Cribb-Molineaux fight. It was discussed in church sermons, social gatherings, and even in Parliament.
Strangely, the main problem that England had with Molineaux had nothing to do with his color--the extreme racism of the late 19th century was still some time off. In fact, the British people were quite willing to give Molineaux credit as an excellent boxer, and his numerous affairs with white women were by and large overlooked. The much greater offense, in their eyes, was the hideous fact that he was an AMERICAN! The idea that a foreigner could take the sacred trophy of British sporting was unthinkable.
Whatever their reasons, the English made it quite clear to Cribb that he couldn't dodge Molineaux, and that retirement had to wait. Cribb consented, and he and Molineaux met at Copthorne Gap in December of 1810. The defending champion was still out of shape from his semi-retirement, and was carrying several excess pounds of fat. Molineaux was in much better shape, but he was still comparatively crude stylistically. Most importantly, though--Cribb underestimated Molineaux. He would come to regret this judgement in the fight to come.
Preliminary Notes
Pierce Egan's Boxiana is the source for the majority of this fight narration. It was composed at a time shortly after the Cribb--Molineaux fight took place by a man who had seen most of the fights of the era. The incident alluded to in the 29th round is mentioned in most of the sources dealing with the fight, although there is some controversy about which round it took place in. The 29th is generally considered correct.
Egan's wording is full of arcane word usage from a boxing vocabulary no longer in use, so liberty has been taken in "translating" the fight for ease of reading.
i got a few books about boxing from the 17th century and one detailing the history of pugilism - its basically pancrase stuff and vale-tudo..boxing in the 17th century allowed throws and all sorts of stuff...
"i'm from London innit. i aint gonna mess about hitting ya wiv sticks un bottles; i'd just smash you over the 'ead wiv me pitbull."
The Fight
ROUND 1--Molineaux lands the first punch of the fight--a left handed punch which does little real damage. Cribb returns and misses, blocks Molineaux's counterpunch, and lands a solid left under Molineaux's eye. The two exchange two more blows and then go into a clinch. Cribb throws Molineaux, ending the round.
ROUND 2--Molineaux rallies and lands an ineffective left on Cribb, who returns with a vicious hit to Molineaux's right eyebrow, staggering him. Cribb moves in on the staggered Molineaux, and they land several shots on each other. Cribb is already showing his advantage in skill, but Molineaux manages to land a brutal blow to the mouth which makes Cribb's teeth chatter. Cribb's mouth starts bleeding.
ROUND 3--Both fighters look for openings. Molineaux throws a shot to Cribb's head, which is blocked. Cribb smartly counterpunches with a vicious right hand to the ribs, which floors Molineaux.
ROUND 4--Molineaux rallies, moving forward after the champion until Cribb stops him with a punch to the face. He is knocked down, due in part to the wet and slippery ground (it is a cold, stormy winter day in England).....
Fight continues to round 39 - read more here:
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.ph...1st_meeting%29
There was a fantastic documentary on about these boxers... really impressive - I'll see if I can find it
Its here on 4OD. You can watch it for free. Download their player and install and you can watch the whole thing or follow this link to see a clip - Really worth it:
http://www.channel4.com/video/bare-k...ghter_p_1.html
A reply to me:
17th-19th century Multi-culturalisim in London is very much in evidence examining Boxing, as you state, and encompassed Boxers being discovered and imported to London not only from the colonies but from Ireland, France, Portugal, Prussia, Venice, Denmark, Switzarland, Spain, Russia, Sweden, Holland, Greece and Turkey as well, and in addition, London’s Jewish community produced many legends of the golden age of Boxing who include the likes of legendary Daniel Mendoza, champion of England in 1792-95, Samuel ("Dutch Sam") Elias (1776-1816), credited with the invention of the uppercut, Barney Aaron ("the Star of the East"; 1800-1850), Henry Abrahams, the Belasco brothers; Abraham ("Aby"), Israel, Samuel, and John, Isaac Bittoon (1778-1838), Elisha Crabbe (d. 1809), Abraham da Costa, Barnard Levy, Keely Lyons, Daniel Martin, Isaac Mousha, Abraham Robes, Solomon Sodicky, and the cousins of Daniel Mendoza; Angel Hyams and Aaron Mendoza, among others
Hagler/Minter was also quoted as a seminal example of race and bareknuckle boxing
Further reading:
Bareknuckles: A Social History of Prize Fighting
By Dennis Brailsford
Black Ajax
By George MacDonald Fraser
Yeah it was crazy. Check the fight report below your post !Originally Posted by van-man
Definitely check this out if you are interested :
http://www.channel4.com/video/bare-k...oxer/series-1/
my family has a long heritage in boxing and reading a lot of that stuff got me interested in wrestling and shit from back in the day, like catch as catch can and the combat sports britain developed. got a book from 1827 about how oto fight and its like a randy couture manual...with drawings but no photos obviously..seriously awesome when you read about combat sports in UK from history..
nice posts mate
"i'm from London innit. i aint gonna mess about hitting ya wiv sticks un bottles; i'd just smash you over the 'ead wiv me pitbull."
Thanks mate. I need to pick up some books like the one you explained . Whats its title?
By the way, for a full play by play of that fight against Molineaux and Cribb read this (PDF):
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...5X6HV8M2QV8hlg
It would have been interesting to have seen one of these fights. They lasted so long they must have had similarities to MMA fights that we see today but at a slower pace. They must have had a lot of fitness though.
Does anyone know how they trained? Bearing in mind that at the time we probably barely had any sports science, etc. Their cardiovascular fitness must have been incredible.
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