U.M.A. Groundfighting Rules; your input required...

[Waterboy]

For example, Groundfighting Scoring Rules:

4 Points = Front and Rear Mount Control
3 Points = Passing Guard
2 Points = Sweeps and Knee on the Belly


Legal Submission Technique Rules:
Chokes (Except for using the Hand or Shin to close the wind pipe).
Arm and Shoulder Locks.
Straight Leg and Straight Ankle Locks.

Again, all input is welcome and helpful from everyone

Regarding the implementation of the scoring system, in one of my bouts last competition I remember moving from knee on belly to side control, back to knee and belly, a few times purposefully to demonstrate control of my opponent and obviously rack up some points. At one point it was shouted by the ref that I wouldn't be given any more points for knee on belly. Fair enough maybe, but this seemed to be a judgement call rather than based on any set rule. Your thoughts?

Regarding illegal/legal submission holds, I think a lot more detail is needed - some of us know a LOT of very slightly different leg locks. And personally I don't see the problem with a properly applied toe hold??

[Levo]

Hi Jim

Bold move coming on here for opinions

Rules look ok. If there's a general consensus amongst competitors/coaches who go to your events that a rule should be changed, or a rule causes consistent problems in application, then consider changing it. But don't try to please everyone, especially on a forum because as you know many people will post about the rules then not actually enter!

Some quick thoughts:

- I like that you do one event ground fighting only and one event from standing. As you know, we always support both. Keep one of each, there will always be a market for both.

- The knees coming off the mat is a difficult one that I'm glad you've tried to address with the 3 second rule. There is clearly a difference between putting the soles of both feet on the mat without any weight on your opponent (ie standing up) and going to the balls of your feet with knees off the mat but your weight is on your opponent. Standing up is obviously not allowed under these rules but the latter situation described is unavoidable in transitions. 3 seconds in which to transition in taking the back, sprawling, passing the guard, switching pins, going for submissions etc is a good start. I would re-write it though as it's not that clear right now.

- The no stacking up on your feet to escape a submission is a tough one too. As mentioned, for many of us it's the standard escape to moves such as a guillotine. However, if people have a problem with it then I guess they should ask their coaches to show them another option and/or they shouldn't get caught in guillotines. My advice would be to let the 3 second rule apply consistently so competitors could come up to their feet to try and escape and/or readjust their position, but only for the 3 seconds allowed in other positions.

- Change "No Full Nelson, Crucifix, Heel Hooks..." The three moves listed seem very arbitrary with no consistent theme. Move ""No spine, neck or back cranks" up the list as that covers the former and add "no twisting leglocks such as the heelhook or toehold" to cover the latter as that more clearly defines the moves you ban (there are always questions about this at your rules meetings, often from me!). The bit about throwing a competitor on their neck and the qualifier about dangerous techniques can be separate after or before those.

- If safety is a concern I would consider adding in "no groin stretches" to the illegal techniques. People are using moves like "The Electric Chair" and "The Banana Split" a lot and they can cause serious injuries that can stop someone training for a long time. I personally like some of them but as a coach I wouldn't want to see a beginner in a mixed level competition get his groin wrenched by someone using their whole body to split the legs then not be able to walk home or train for months.

- I'd need a clarification on whether we could do jump passes. No standing up or anything, just a shoulder down on opponent then popping to feet and jumping over to one side. I assume it's legal.

- As Tom pointed out above there are sometimes inconsistencies with scoring points that need to be cleared up. I have a few thought on this.

Nathan

[jonbroster]

- The knees coming off the mat is a difficult one that I'm glad you've tried to address with the 3 second rule. There is clearly a difference between putting the soles of both feet on the mat without any weight on your opponent (ie standing up) and going to the balls of your feet with knees off the mat but your weight is on your opponent. Standing up is obviously not allowed under these rules but the latter situation described is unavoidable in transitions. 3 seconds in which to transition in taking the back, sprawling, passing the guard, switching pins, going for submissions etc is a good start. I would re-write it though as it's not that clear right now.

Perhaps this could be resolved with careful wording, that obviates the need for timing and loads of exceptions and examples.

Perhaps you could look at the number of parts of the body that are bearing weight, so that it would be possible to define standing up as bearing weight only on the feet. However, bearing weight on the head and the balls of the feet is clearly not standing up. This would mean that most guard passes that involve some element of standing would be legal, because weight is not only bourne by the feet.

A good example of this would be Chris Haueter's Smash the Junk pass (it is on youtube). He is clearly on his feet, but most of his weight is on his opponent. I don't see that anyone could have any particular objection to this technique, even in a strictly ground fighting competition.

Jon

[U.M.A.]

The U.M.A. would like to thank everyone who has posted they're advice and recommendations etc, with regard to our questions re the U.M.A.'s Groundfighting Rules and Regulations.

I will now consult and ask our Senior Officers within the U.M.A. with everyones post's and concerns etc, and we will then look at all the recommendations and advice to see if or what we can or will do to try and either improve or better our current groundfighting rules, and hopefully try and find some sort of middle ground for the Grappling Community and the U.M.A. etc.

We will post the results and details etc, both on the C.W. and E.F.N. Forums once a final draft has been made and ready to implement for the next U.M.A. Referee's Course and future U.M.A. Groundfighting Championships.

Once again, thanks for all the input.