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Thread: License/ governing body following death of fighter

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  1. #1

    Default License/ governing body following death of fighter

    On Sunday night a friend of mine passed away after being knocked out in a full contact kickboxing match. He was 26, it was his 2nd fight his first being a long time ago and he was a fire fighter. I was there to see him fight and the knock out was like many others I've seen in the scores of shows that I've attended and supported...only difference is my mate didn't wake up.

    I am aware of the arguments for and against governing bodies in our sport, by which I mean kick/thai boxing and MMA, but in light of this a lot of these arguments are weak and I'm now appealing to the fighters to demand some sort of licensing etc. I've trained MMA for a few years now along with Muay Thai and have a background in boxing and have suffered a number of injuries. When considering competing at pro, semi pro, i've heard the argument "whats the worst that can happen? you're not going to die in there" well tragically my mate did and I never want to read of another fighter suffering the same fate.

    We all know that we partake in a risky sport, but we are all at the mercy of promoters, their rules and more importantly our own body and its susceptability to damage. Some people's bodies are not equipped to deal with the punishment we expose it to in sparring let alone competition. This is why you are not allowed to fight in a professional boxing contest unless you have your license and in order to get your license you have to pass a thorough medical which i believe includes a CAT scan. I really think the time has come that we need to introduce something like this in order to help stop further fatalities or terminal damage in our sport. I'm not saying that this would've helped my friend, but its certainly started me thinking. I've witnessed fighters ignore their contractual obligation to undertake a blood test before an MMA fight because its a hassle, but if the promoter or license was to forbid a fighter from putting him/herself and opponents at risk, then we should hopefully cut down on these terrible incidents.

    The only argument against this is cost, well how much is it worth to not do this? Maybe we shouldn't fight for 50 or 100 pounds and demand upwards of 300/ 500 for any pro fight, which I know will upset the promoters, but this may bring MMA in the UK more mainstream. I know that the UFC make their fighters undergo CAT scans and other medical check and they seem to survive pretty well. And if we're all paying to get medicals done then the costs will come down and i'm sure there are some medical practicioners will jump at helping out.

    So I'm guessing I'm calling for a collection of fighters to lobby for some kind of license which should let them fight with greater peace of mind that they are safer in doing so and hopefully wont get hurt or hurt an opponent to the point that they cannot fight again. Licensed fighters should then also be able to command a higher purse.

    RIP Dan

  2. #2

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    How much would a CAT scan and a skull X ray cost? Maybe anyone considering competitive fighting should think of havijg both doneat their own expense.

    The reason I mention skull X ray is because of what happened to boxer Johnny Owen in the 80s. KIlled in the ring; the post mortem revealed that he had an abnormally thin skull (if I remember rightly)
    Any opinions I express on this forum are entirely personal opinions and it should not be assumed that they reflect the official view of any organisations I am connected with

  3. #3

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    I reckon that a thorough medical could be as much as 1000 without insurance, but this can only come down.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Exile View Post
    How much would a CAT scan and a skull X ray cost? Maybe anyone considering competitive fighting should think of havijg both doneat their own expense.

    The reason I mention skull X ray is because of what happened to boxer Johnny Owen in the 80s. KIlled in the ring; the post mortem revealed that he had an abnormally thin skull (if I remember rightly)
    Hi interesting topic here, Im confused as to when or how often would the CAT scan etc be required ie,firstly to fight amateur with headguards or Pro.And secondly when to re-do the scan for eg after a knockout,I think if you were wanting to fight an initial scan would be good for your own knowledge in that you didnt have any brain abnormalities or as you stated johhny owens with a thin skull.I would pay for that assurance myself as life is precious however repeat scans and how frequent could dictate peoples opinions in terms of cost versus the risks we take. Any views on this....????

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by android View Post
    Hi interesting topic here, Im confused as to when or how often would the CAT scan etc be required ie,firstly to fight amateur with headguards or Pro.And secondly when to re-do the scan for eg after a knockout,I think if you were wanting to fight an initial scan would be good for your own knowledge in that you didnt have any brain abnormalities or as you stated johhny owens with a thin skull.I would pay for that assurance myself as life is precious however repeat scans and how frequent could dictate peoples opinions in terms of cost versus the risks we take. Any views on this....????
    Firstly, thanks for the response I'm glad its provoking thoughts which will hopefully go someway towards improving safety. On the aspect of medicals etc I'm looking to speak with some medical professionals who can advise as to what might be necessary for fight sports such as mma/ kickboxing etc, but as regards cat scans, well if everyone who competed full contact head shots got a scan done, then I feel like we'd made serious advances in safety in our sport. Depending on which way things go in the future, a license for example usually only lasts a year, so it would probably be annually. however, i'm aware that the scan is probably only good for the time that it is done. the fighter could go to training the following week and take a shin kick to the head which may become problematic, but like any injury or injury prevention, information is key and getting a scan done can elimante problems that people carry or have carried since birth for example. furthermore, if problems arise between scans, then one is able to investigate more accurately how the problem has come about ie lightweight gloves during training, number of bouts etc etc.

  6. #6

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    i believe that the cat scan / medical is in the region of 1,400. it is something that we looked into and tried to explore dilligently with fx3, unfortunately you are correct john junior, is it worth paying the ultimate price? but cost is and for the forseable future a major factor from both the promoters point and the fighters. let us not forget promotions in other countries have already gained ground and broken boundaries within their own countries to achieve this , something i truely hope will still happen here on our shores, again it's down to money... i really believe that until substational money is made within a promotion / sport those in power really aren't that interested in the furtherment of it , that being said we as promoters and fighters still have to "do our bit". you just can't escape the fact that the uk as a whole really don't get behind our own when we're trying new ventures.
    we have some good people with many great skills and connections in both the mma and kickboxing fraternities within the uk, so hopefully we can achieve what needs to be done.
    i will say that within the fx3 brand also my extreme brawl there are progressions being made as i'm sure the like with many other uk promotions.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad boy bailey View Post
    i believe that the cat scan / medical is in the region of 1,400. it is something that we looked into and tried to explore dilligently with fx3, unfortunately you are correct john junior, is it worth paying the ultimate price? but cost is and for the forseable future a major factor from both the promoters point and the fighters. let us not forget promotions in other countries have already gained ground and broken boundaries within their own countries to achieve this , something i truely hope will still happen here on our shores, again it's down to money... i really believe that until substational money is made within a promotion / sport those in power really aren't that interested in the furtherment of it , that being said we as promoters and fighters still have to "do our bit". you just can't escape the fact that the uk as a whole really don't get behind our own when we're trying new ventures.
    we have some good people with many great skills and connections in both the mma and kickboxing fraternities within the uk, so hopefully we can achieve what needs to be done.
    i will say that within the fx3 brand also my extreme brawl there are progressions being made as i'm sure the like with many other uk promotions.

    Thanks for your reply...its great to get an honest opinion from another fighter/ promoter. What do you think is the way forward? Who do we need to lobby in order to either bring the price down etc? What constitutes a substantial amount of money? The MMA scene and fight sports in general seem to be cashing in from training equipment to clothing, with the same firms sponoring events etc. Sky Sports, LA Muscle, Bravo, ESPN and other listed TV channels are covering the sport so its no longer 'underground'. The issue with any 1 promotion being successful and introducing medical conditions still doesn't stop smaller promotions or even gyms putting on their own competitions with head shots etc. Even some amateur bouts now include head shots...maybe not always with 4oz gloves, but even so. I realise we have to start some where. Is it time that we tried to get the press to help us. they seem to be across any celebrity involvement in the sport and with support from Alex Reid for example it may acts as a vehicle towards greater safety awareness and some level of legality for fighters.

    Cheers

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    I was very sad when l heard about the tragic death of Dan and send my deepest sympathies to you, his family and his gym.The safety aspect of all contact sports needs to be looked at constantly and have regular evaluation, one of the most important things a coach can do is to eliminate gym wars, by this l mean subjecting your fighters to heavy contact sparring sessions, week in week out, this lessens the amount of strikes to the head a fighter takes in his/her fight career, its the same if you are training and grappling full on, your neck and joints are sore, safety in the gym must be a byword.And in no way am l implying this was the case with Dan, l hear that he came from a first class gym, but its commonsense really, eliminate gym wars, save them for the tournament. R.I.P. Dan.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnchigo View Post
    I was very sad when l heard about the tragic death of Dan and send my deepest sympathies to you, his family and his gym.The safety aspect of all contact sports needs to be looked at constantly and have regular evaluation, one of the most important things a coach can do is to eliminate gym wars, by this l mean subjecting your fighters to heavy contact sparring sessions, week in week out, this lessens the amount of strikes to the head a fighter takes in his/her fight career, its the same if you are training and grappling full on, your neck and joints are sore, safety in the gym must be a byword.And in no way am l implying this was the case with Dan, l hear that he came from a first class gym, but its commonsense really, eliminate gym wars, save them for the tournament. R.I.P. Dan.
    Thanks johnchigo...i've passed on the sympathies from CW to his friends. i unfortunately dont think gym wars will ever be totally eliminated. i've watched many friends go 95% with one another and enjoy every second of it, the effects never cross your mind when you're on the mat or across the cage/ ring and they shouldn't. That's why we need peace of mind by undergoing medical assessment to ensure we are not hurting ourselves or each other. furthermore, i believe that there should be consesus regarding the weight of gloves that are used for training purposes. i was tagged recently by a guy wearing a very old pair of 10 oz gloves...they had little padding and i think he fractured my nose...it didn't help my training or his. individuals need to demonstrate control and if i'm honest, specifically in MMA gyms, there is a high level of respect and control although with the increasing popularity the sports attracting more idiots than before.

  10. #10

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    I had full medicals in september which was paid for by ring side, the cat scan invoice showed 225 dollars. Not sure the blood and the general medical. It may be much more exspensive over here.

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