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Thread: Ne Waza Or Bjj

  1. #1

    Default Ne Waza Or Bjj

    This may seem like a stupid question but what is the difference between Judo groundwork and BJJ? For example if u train at a JUDO club that does alot of NE WAZA would you learn anything different by training at a BJJ club?

  2. #2

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    Judo newaza tends to be rather unfocused, with more emphasis on the rolling side of it than on the detailed instruction required to build up a game. Usually, they have a couple of gi chokes and an armbar, plus whatever standup techniques they've modified to work on the ground, and that's about it. It also tends to be much more focused on the top game aspect, due to the nature of Judo's rules and the importance of pinning. Guard passing is rarely covered, since the guard is usually a stalemate position in Judo and not very common, and emphasis on working from the guard is also diminished accordingly. It is also usually done in a much more physical fashion as a result of the short time limit allowed for groundwork in a competition setting, resulting in more explosive attacks and more direct force rather than strategic setups.

    BJJ tends to start from a more guard-first standpoint, with a lot of focus on sweeps and attacks from the guard. Although this will obviously vary according to the coach. There's much more focus on combinations of attacks and options from a single position, encouraging people to build up a game from a certain position. It also tends to encompass a much wider range of submissions as even though pretty much all of them are contained within Judo, many of them are very hard to pull off in a time limited fashion and some of them are illegal in modern Judo competition.

    To summarize, BJJ has a more complex and technical ground game, in general, whilst Judo will be more explosive. However, that isn't to say Judo newaza can't be technical, just that it's not so much the norm, and focuses much more on mastering a few things than exposing you to thousands of options.

    Hope that helps, and sorry if I've offended any judoka. ^_^

    Take care,

    Stalks
    Grappling Record: 215 W (134 SUBs) - 85 L (13 SUBs) - 2 D
    Amateur MMA Record: 15 W (14 SUBs) - 0 L - 2 D

    The Jiujitsu Game - A Competitor's Videolog

    Proudly sponsored by Black Eagle & Scramble

  3. #3

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    And the coach will be naming the techniques in Japanese.

  4. #4

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    I was wondering about this too. Thanks for that. I might just have to seek out a judo club and see for myself.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by james123 View Post
    This may seem like a stupid question but what is the difference between Judo groundwork and BJJ? For example if u train at a JUDO club that does alot of NE WAZA would you learn anything different by training at a BJJ club?
    Depends if you are learning Kosen Judo or Fusen Ryu Jiujitsu newaza. Those guys work primarily on the ground like BJJ.

    I think every art develops a certain style. For example Sambo newaza people are experts with armbars and leglocks but not as good with chokes since chokes aren't legal in regular sambo.
    BJJ people for the most part are great at passing but not as strong with leglocks since most leglocks are illegal till the higher belts.

    One of the reasons that Imanari is so good at leglocks is because he says that he was horrible at passing guard and so just learned to go for leglocks instead of passing guard. Course Imanari was originally a catch wrestler and then became a BJJ blackbelt under Marco Barbosa (who orgininally was a judoka having even studied Judo for 3 years at Tenri in Japan). So Imanari has influences coming from all directions.

  6. #6

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by james123 View Post
    This may seem like a stupid question but what is the difference between Judo groundwork and BJJ? For example if u train at a JUDO club that does alot of NE WAZA would you learn anything different by training at a BJJ club?
    Some of Stalkachu's comments have merit. However, I disagree with his intial comment that:

    "Judo newaza tends to be rather unfocused, with more emphasis on the rolling side of it than on the detailed instruction required to build up a game."
    The original question asks about judo clubs that do alot of newaza or I guess take newaza seriously. In such clubs the ne-waza training will be focused with detailed instruction and strategy. I have known judoka from such clubs tap BJJ brown and black belts. I have to be fair also see judo black belts from clubs with less ne-waza focus get destroyed by BJJ blue belts. On the whole BJJers might be surprised at the depth and quality there is in some of the UK's long established judo clubs.

    Obviously some clubs have shitty ne-waza, but hey every club cannot be perfect.

    One thing to note is that as Stalkachu says judoka will not spend as much time working on their guard as BJJers. This is because the typical judo strategy is to control the standing game, throw and land on your opponents. thus negating the need to pass their guard. However, again dependent on the club / instructor some judoka have very technical guards.

    Stalkachu's final paragraph:

    To summarize, BJJ has a more complex and technical ground game, in general, whilst Judo will be more explosive. However, that isn't to say Judo newaza can't be technical, just that it's not so much the norm, and focuses much more on mastering a few things than exposing you to thousands of options.
    I would wholly agree
    Last edited by bomberh; 06-01-2010 at 01:01 AM.

  8. #8

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    Point noted. I must admit, I was referring to a club that did a lot of newaza as one with an even split of standup to ground (hence, relatively, quite a lot), rather than what you would call a newaza focused high-level Judo club. From the couple of local judo clubs I've been to, the newaza, whilst high in quantity, was much as I described.

    So whilst there are no doubt high quality newaza-based judo clubs, your typical judo club that has a fair amount of newaza is, in my opinion, as I laid out.

    Statement adjusted!

    Take care,

    Stalks
    Grappling Record: 215 W (134 SUBs) - 85 L (13 SUBs) - 2 D
    Amateur MMA Record: 15 W (14 SUBs) - 0 L - 2 D

    The Jiujitsu Game - A Competitor's Videolog

    Proudly sponsored by Black Eagle & Scramble

  9. #9

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    I don't know about you guys but my judo club ne-waza is mostly about scrambling from different positions ( we do lots of positional sparring (i.e. start with your hooks in) and working alot on transistions from throw to floor. My Judo instructor's pet peev is people looking up at the ref to see if they have scored a ippon after a throw and not going straight into a hold down " Don't look at the ref! just jump on him for osaekomi"

  10. #10

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    The traditional jj club I trained with put lots of emphesis on ne waza as they enter groundwork competitions. I find it very hard to use the ne waza techniques as all the competitions I entered were open-weight and to simply pin someone down who is alot bigger than me is impossible although that is all anyone seemed to attempt to do. Because I have trained nogi bjj they were shocked to see me pull out a triangle choke in my second fight, a textbook perfect armbar in the third and a guillotine choke in the fifth. It was anti-climatic when I realised I'd won to heard people asking why don't we train more subs? It was fairly obvious watching the comp from start to finish that most there had only been taught to get their opponent in Kesa gatame and hold on for dear life for 25 seconds to win.
    Last edited by ferret; 06-01-2010 at 09:22 AM.

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