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Thread: While Helio's brand of Jiu-Jitsu emphasized technical proficiency, Carlson favored a

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  1. #1

    Default While Helio's brand of Jiu-Jitsu emphasized technical proficiency, Carlson favored a

    ... 'warrior style' of Jiu-Jitsu that encouraged physical prowess and barraging your opponent with a series of attacks!



    What are your views on the styles on calson and helio. Moreover today what would you say is the main difference between calsons school of jiu jitsu in the uk and gracie barra respectivly? I know there are many factors involved peoples own style etc but lets just say you were to get 100 students from calsons and 100 from gracie baraa would you be able to distinquish between the two schools styles.


    Im considering buying a book called bjj for experts by the late calson gracie because it would be nice to see such a distinquished guys views on the guard etc.(anyone read it?)

    In the end i am not saying this question to debate whos school is better but to celebrate the different styles. I mean it would be boring if we all did the same style of jiu jitsu
    Last edited by akiraB; 10-02-2010 at 08:01 PM.

  2. #2
    steve_langford
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    Carlsons tend to SMASH
    Gracie Barra tend to SMASH with a smile

  3. #3

  4. #4

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    I am a big fan of Carlsons style, and really the proof is in the pudding- the amount of top sport BJJ fighters is not rivaled by any in the modern era (perhaps Gurgel).9
    A word of warning though, i have the book and must admit it was a huge let down, probably my least favourite book i have ever purchased (and i have shit loads).

  5. #5

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    I'd say Carlson's BJJ has been adopted by a lot more people than Helio's style of BJJ.. i'd say maybe you oughta train both ways and see which suits you the most ii guess..







    GG

  6. #6

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    i am going to develop my own brand of jiu jitsu know as sloth jiu jitsu ™ which will favour minimum effort maximum efficiency

  7. #7

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    I'm not sure you can generalise about any one persons style. Helio's style has influenced people as diverse as Rickson, Royce, Relson, Rorion and Royler (to name a few) - it is hardly as if those 5 men have markedly similar styles or have not also been influenced by other sources as well.

    Equally, whilst many of Carlson's team have a reputation for a more physical approach to BJJ, he also had some very technically gifted players such as de la riva or peixotinho (who beat royler and rillion respectively).


    Quote Originally Posted by akiraB View Post
    ...
    What are your views on the styles on calson and helio. Moreover today what would you say is the main difference between calsons school of jiu jitsu in the uk and gracie barra respectivly? I know there are many factors involved peoples own style etc but lets just say you were to get 100 students from calsons and 100 from gracie baraa would you be able to distinquish between the two schools styles.
    This isn't kung fu, there are no schools with a common style across all members, eschewing external influences.

    Take a team like GB with people as diverse as Roger, feitosa, Paixao, Braulio, Gordo & PDP - they cannot be said to have one overarching style.

    Look at the direct relationship of gurgel and marcelinho, their competition styles are nothing alike - you cannot say there is a common "Alliance style" (except winning in style )

    Look at RGA - Nic G, Oli G and Luciano all have different styles, none of them with much in common to Roger's own game


    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
    I am a big fan of Carlsons style, and really the proof is in the pudding- the amount of top sport BJJ fighters is not rivaled by any in the modern era (perhaps Gurgel)..
    I don't really buy that, not that it is necessarily a mark of how influential or great someone is, but jacare/gurgel (remembering terere was specifically instrumental in the development of galvao, morais and cobrinha); carlinhos and royler all have a greater claim to have produced more sports bjj champs and in an era when there is much greater depth in competition than comparatively in the 80's and early 90's.

    Bear in mind also Helio produced the greatest BJJ player to date (Rickson) and the best p4p gi and no gi player of the last 2 decades (Royler) othe best bjj marketing guy eva (Rorion), oh and that Royce guy.


    Quote Originally Posted by GreekGod View Post
    I'd say Carlson's BJJ has been adopted by a lot more people than Helio's style of BJJ.. i'd say maybe you oughta train both ways and see which suits you the most ii guess.
    GG
    i don't really buy that either - putting aside BTT & ATT, which were not part of his fold in any case, Carlson's biggest extant team now is BJJ Revolution in the US (and very successful they are too), but they are not more prolific than the gracie humaita team (which inclues 2 of the 3 most accomplished players of the last decade and the most successful teacher/student gold medal haul at major competitions ever - royler/saulo/xande).

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Sho View Post
    I'm not sure you can generalise about any one persons style. Helio's style has influenced people as diverse as Rickson, Royce, Relson, Rorion and Royler (to name a few) - it is hardly as if those 5 men have markedly similar styles or have not also been influenced by other sources as well.

    Equally, whilst many of Carlson's team have a reputation for a more physical approach to BJJ, he also had some very technically gifted players such as de la riva or peixotinho (who beat royler and rillion respectively).




    This isn't kung fu, there are no schools with a common style across all members, eschewing external influences.

    Take a team like GB with people as diverse as Roger, feitosa, Paixao, Braulio, Gordo & PDP - they cannot be said to have one overarching style.

    Look at the direct relationship of gurgel and marcelinho, their competition styles are nothing alike - you cannot say there is a common "Alliance style" (except winning in style )

    Look at RGA - Nic G, Oli G and Luciano all have different styles, none of them with much in common to Roger's own game




    I don't really buy that, not that it is necessarily a mark of how influential or great someone is, but jacare/gurgel (remembering terere was specifically instrumental in the development of galvao, morais and cobrinha); carlinhos and royler all have a greater claim to have produced more sports bjj champs and in an era when there is much greater depth in competition than comparatively in the 80's and early 90's.

    Bear in mind also Helio produced the greatest BJJ player to date (Rickson) and the best p4p gi and no gi player of the last 2 decades (Royler) othe best bjj marketing guy eva (Rorion), oh and that Royce guy.




    i don't really buy that either - putting aside BTT & ATT, which were not part of his fold in any case, Carlson's biggest extant team now is BJJ Revolution in the US (and very successful they are too), but they are not more prolific than the gracie humaita team (which inclues 2 of the 3 most accomplished players of the last decade and the most successful teacher/student gold medal haul at major competitions ever - royler/saulo/xande).
    Rickson- greatest player to date? Very arguable...

    I understand what you are saying,but for me, Carlson lost all his guys in the late 90's were his team at that time was the most sucessful. Just look at the guys winning the mundials, Bitetti, Sperry, Liborio, Busta + the others Ismail, Barreto, Filho, Arona, Medeiros. Not many teams had that many world class competitors on their roster.

    Anyway, dont buy the book its pretty bad by all acounts!! lol!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
    Rickson- greatest player to date? Very arguable...
    Are you saying that all the jiu-jitsu guys who say he is the best ever are lying?

    When Graciemag got votes from multiple high level/world champion/old school guys who were the best BJJers of each decade, Rickson won the 80s and I think it was unanimous and they pretty much all said he was the best ever. He definitely won, I could be wrong on the rest but can't find the article.

    Paulo Fihlo said that he was way better than anyone else he had ever trained with. That is a guy who is making comparisons to awesome BJJers.

    Andre Galvao said Rickson smashed him when they did positional sparring from mount. Galvao could never escape and always tapped, Rickson always escaped.
    http://www.ChrisReesAcademy.com - http://thetattooedchimp.blogspot.co.uk/

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Are you saying that all the jiu-jitsu guys who say he is the best ever are lying?

    When Graciemag got votes from multiple high level/world champion/old school guys who were the best BJJers of each decade, Rickson won the 80s and I think it was unanimous and they pretty much all said he was the best ever. He definitely won, I could be wrong on the rest but can't find the article.

    Paulo Fihlo said that he was way better than anyone else he had ever trained with. That is a guy who is making comparisons to awesome BJJers.

    Andre Galvao said Rickson smashed him when they did positional sparring from mount. Galvao could never escape and always tapped, Rickson always escaped.
    How do you define if someone is the best ever? By stories of greatness? Some people who claim this and havent even rolled or trained with him. Its like John Danaher, people regard him with a mystique of greatness and no doubt he would have excellent skills with a massive reputation but that is not enough for me.

    Galvao and Filho for all we know could be trying to show respect to Rickson by giving such compliments as he is undoubtedly a legend of the sport. I think the standard of todays BJJ far surpasses that of 20 years ago and it is very difficult to put a tag on someone as the greatest ever when he would not have faced the caliber and the depth of talent of todays standards.

    Rickson has hero worship status by an army of fans, and as i said it is arguable that he is the greatest ever.

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