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Thread: While Helio's brand of Jiu-Jitsu emphasized technical proficiency, Carlson favored a

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Dude, come on... everyone knows the 400-0 was marketing. No one is talking about the "Rickson Gracie is the god of vale tudo and would be unbeatable under UFC 1 rules" myth... that is just a myth.
    lol, ffs, the 400-0 thing was a joke started by some guys on a forum, Rickson has never come out and stated he has such a record.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    The people saying it have trained with him though. The older guys have seen him compete and train MANY times.

    Why would Galvao say Rickson smashed him? He has no links to him that matter and he is a Mundials champion. He has books and dvd sets being done... why would he want to talk himself down? To respect Rickson?

    Basically the whole of the BJJ community who matter (the guys who have had black belts for a long time, or have won world championships at black belt) say Rickson is the best ever. Loads of top BJJ guys bitch about each other for various things, you think Renzo or Wallid etc would be scared to say if the whole Rickson thing was bullshit? You think they're all just doing it out of respect?
    Come on Rob, Galvao would get so much shit and hate from the community if he came out and said he smashed him. Maybe he did, maybe he didnt, maybe Galvao didnt try to smash him- what top level player trys to smash a 50+ years old legend of the sport. I would like to see that roll...

    What are these competitions he has competed in and who did he face?

    We could just as easily be having this conversation about Rolls Gracie, for whom by all accounts had an even bigger mystique than Rickson did. Rolls developed a great deal of techniques into the "Gracie Jui Jtsu" and was the first to train with Olympic level wrestlers and top judoka.

    Again, it is just an opinion. I may well say Roger Gracie is the greatest, it is certainly more tangible a case.

  3. #23

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    I think the variation between individuals is greater than the variation between teams styles.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    I thought it had been used like guys like Sperry (I think he was said to be 270-0 or something, then lost to Zinoviev?), lol

    Either way anyway, that isn't what people are trying to say is true. It's obviously nonsence.
    http://www.ChrisReesAcademy.com - http://thetattooedchimp.blogspot.co.uk/

  5. #25

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    lol!

    Who would have thought the old Rickson Gracie is the best argument would come out?

    Love the passion. I am a fan of Rickson for not wearing chavv'd up desined gi's with shit loads of patches, i do hate that...

  6. #26
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
    Come on Rob, Galvao would get so much shit and hate from the community if he came out and said he smashed him. Maybe he did, maybe he didnt, maybe Galvao didnt try to smash him- what top level player trys to smash a 50+ years old legend of the sport. I would like to see that roll...

    What are these competitions he has competed in and who did he face?

    We could just as easily be having this conversation about Rolls Gracie, for whom by all accounts had an even bigger mystique than Rickson did. Rolls developed a great deal of techniques into the "Gracie Jui Jtsu" and was the first to train with Olympic level wrestlers and top judoka.

    Again, it is just an opinion. I may well say Roger Gracie is the greatest, it is certainly more tangible a case.
    I know it's just opinion, that's obvious. That's the entire point of posting on message forums.

    I don't know what competitions, go and ask any old school black belt. Galvao wouldn't have to say he smashed him... he had no reason to actively state Rickson tapped him etc...

    I don't think 50 is too old for someone to still be able to dominate. Especially with the gi. I'm not saying Rickson would win competitions at his age now, that's pretty unlikely imo.

    If you're gonna say best ever is done by competition results then I guess it's Roger without question. Otherwise I have to go with what the people with the best knowledge say, cos I have little personal experience to compare those guys with each other!
    http://www.ChrisReesAcademy.com - http://thetattooedchimp.blogspot.co.uk/

  7. #27

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    In terms of anecdotal evidence, this from Rick Young:

    In the next couple of years whenever I visited Los Angeles to train with Dan Inosanto I trained with Rickson, Rorian and Royce this was because Paul Vunak one of my instructors at the time took privates from all three and I just joined in. I rolled with Rickson maybe 6 or 7 times but in all honesty I didnt have the skills to give him any problems at all so it was hard for me to gauge just how great he was. During one class though in the summer of 1993, just prior to the first UFC, I did roll with Rickson, Royce and Fabio Gurgel who Rickson introduced as a world class black belt. Rickson rolled with him and proceeded to tap him constantly. He did the same to Royce but Royce was tapping twice as quickly as Fabio. I mention this not to downplay either Royce or Fabios abilities but just to give some perspective on Rickson.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by akiraB View Post
    ... 'warrior style' of Jiu-Jitsu that encouraged physical prowess and barraging your opponent with a series of attacks!



    What are your views on the styles on calson and helio. Moreover today what would you say is the main difference between calsons school of jiu jitsu in the uk and gracie barra respectivly? I know there are many factors involved peoples own style etc but lets just say you were to get 100 students from calsons and 100 from gracie baraa would you be able to distinquish between the two schools styles.


    Im considering buying a book called bjj for experts by the late calson gracie because it would be nice to see such a distinquished guys views on the guard etc.(anyone read it?)

    In the end i am not saying this question to debate whos school is better but to celebrate the different styles. I mean it would be boring if we all did the same style of jiu jitsu
    Ive read carlsons book and its worth the purchase as well as rodrigo maediera's essential guard.But yeah if you can get it second hand then good.
    Last edited by SwiftMotion; 11-02-2010 at 08:31 AM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIBULUS View Post
    I think the variation between individuals is greater than the variation between teams styles.
    I would agree with that especially because a lot of people learn from other students,youtube etc and everybody has a different body type,preferences.Strangely If think the best instructor you can have is someone who has a similar style of jujitsu and body type to you or is just a master and can show you what will work for you because they can see what your style is/body type.However I rekon the biggest difference would be in the attitude of the two dojo's and at the end of the day they specialise in different techniques.Like you will hardly ever see a GB practioner use de la riva guard.

    Roger Gracie said to me that he thinks Ricksons the best after I commented that the most amazing movement Ive seen in sport ever was when Rickson got double legged and did that whole reversal thing in choke.The guy is amazing man.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Sho View Post
    lol, ffs, the 400-0 thing was a joke started by some guys on a forum, Rickson has never come out and stated he has such a record.
    I'm interested to find out more about rickson after so many top guys vouching he's an otherworldly grappler. It just seems that as the top guys games progress that they become so cautious it's difficult to imagine someone running through them but there does seem a lot of evidence that, that's what rickson did.

    The thing that does discredit rickson to an extent is him stating how he'd beat Fedor and lesnar. Based on the footage of his mma fights coupled with his recorded loss in freestyle wrestling it wouldn't be too hard for either guy to implement a sprawl and brawl gameplan or a Fedor vs big nog3 gameplan.

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