Free will?

[Rob T]

You can be shaped by your past and still have free will.

[Truthseeker]

If it can be shown that the probabilty of a given choice being chosen from other possibily choices is based on the fact that in the past it led to consequences of avoiding punishment or achieving reward then there is less room for free will and that which remains is not the cause of our actions.

[blackdogmma]

learned behavior is hardly an argument against free will, its certainly an argument against chaotic randomness, but proponents of free will are not argueing that choices are made randomly.

If the argument of soft determinism is that factors outside of our control conspire to funnel us toward certain choices, that only shows that there is some level of choice to begin with, and that way back in our evolutionary history, natural selection will have played its part in doing away with bad choice making abilities that threatened a species survivability.

If hard determinism postulates an entire universe that has to exist just so, then again i ask on what scale? examine what makes a chair on a quantum level and you will see not only is it mostly made up of empty space, but also an incredible amount of movement. but regardless of where the electrons are or what speed they are travelling at, the chair is always just a chair at the level of reality you are able to experience it, the position of the electrons within their orbits are irrelevent to your ability to sit in the chair. If we take the same analogy on a larger scale and look upon our own universe as the chair, for forces that experience our universe at such a scale, would the exact positions of our bodies, our thought or actions be of any relevence?

[blackdogmma]

for forces that experience our universe at such a scale, would the exact positions of our bodies, our thought or actions be of any relevence?

bit wierd to quote myself i know, but just for clarity im not refering to deities when i say forces, but the laws of physics and other natural pressures or as yet unknow cosmic forces that are sited by hard determinists to inply that we are all reading from the same script.

[Jamie Taylor]

Rob have you seen ' waking life ' by any chance ?

Everybody in this thread should watchit at some point.

[Rob T]

Nope, what is it? Film, docu... ?

[Jamie Taylor]

It's an animated film in the same style as ' a scanner darkly '.

I think you will like it.

[the jabroni]

last time jamie recommended a film to me it involved a insane jap torchering a couple to death whilst watching each other..........

But i've shot this one on download to see what it has to offer!

[Jamie Taylor]

Hahaha....I think you will like it Rich. Anyone intelligent I recommended it to liked it, the thick cunts said ' Its just loads of talkin, turned it off after 5 mins '.

I am a lucid dreamer so I found it really interesting.

By the way pal I should be getting a sim hopefully today or tomorrow so I'll bell ya about some training. PM me your number, lost all me contacts last week.

[the jabroni]

I messaged ya last week! was wondering why i didn't get a response