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Thread: Free will?

  1. #81

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    An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.
    — Essai philosophique sur les probabilités, Introduction. 1814

  2. #82
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the jabroni View Post
    Professionals almost have sloved the "theory of everything"
    I don't know how you can think this. Do you seriously believe this to be true?


    Quote Originally Posted by the jabroni View Post
    So how do you explain the concept of free will?

    That the number of possible outcomes to a particular scenario is based on what? "Free Will" we are free to choose, but are we?
    I think it's feasible to think that there could be true randomness in the universe. QM shows that at the micro level it's all about probabilities.


    Quote Originally Posted by the jabroni View Post
    Or that there are a number of variables (admittedly large) that allow our cognition to make a judegment? If this is the case then each scenario has been pre-determined as already happened if you like, and there is the possibility that such could be predicted.
    Predicted for certain, or probabilities for each possible outcome? I don't see how this rules out free will.


    Quote Originally Posted by the jabroni View Post
    Or its spiritual / god like and we make our own judgement based on our sole / heart etc. and there is no prediction and end result.
    What about aliens or magic?
    http://www.ChrisReesAcademy.com - http://thetattooedchimp.blogspot.co.uk/

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by the jabroni View Post
    Or its spiritual / god like and we make our own judgement based on our sole
    What has the bottom of our feet got to do with all this ?



  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Taylor View Post
    What has the bottom of our feet got to do with all this ?


    hahaha

    Rob T - the QM is the other batting court. I believe in the TOE;


    I seen sommet good about Aliens today


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...ms-expert.html


    Maybe i'm wrong in the other thread!

  5. #85

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    Free will exists IMO.

    I do believe though that things in life happen for a reason. For example, you commit murder of your own free will, but fate leads you to be caught, karma like forces leads you to die of a horrible disease.

    Obviously there are loasdsa exceptions to my theory as im no savant but its how i live my life.

    I know im free to do wotever i please, but the consequences of my actions may not be to my liking. So I try to be a moral person & put out more good than bad.

  6. #86

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    ...................
    Last edited by andrew123; 24-02-2013 at 11:25 PM.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by the jabroni View Post
    An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.
    — Essai philosophique sur les probabilités, Introduction. 1814
    Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    SMD being intellectually smashed since 1814

  8. #88

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    i feel this subject needs a whole lot more clarification, because reading through the thread some of the arguments for and against seem confused or contradictory, or the terminology is skewed or ill fitting.

    for example the external pressures argument against free will, by its very definition imply some manner of choice. If advertising/marketing/branding/product placement etc are having an effect, what other than the free will are they having an effect on.

    and on what scale if any is the argument for predeterminism on, there has been no discussion or clarification on this subject. For example from the way predeterminism is being put forth my fingers were always meant to tap out this message on my keyboard, but what if the scale isnt that specific. what if the molecules that make up my body were meant to be roughly within a 10 mile area. or if the molecules of my home town had to be somewhere in this hemisphere, or the planet earth had to be within a certain required distance of where the galaxy currently exists?

    How deterministic is determinism, are we actors in a precise and disciplined play, or chaoticly free to play around within a galatic sized sandbox, the only requirement being that we must exist somewhere within the sandbox at some point.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Great post /\
    http://www.ChrisReesAcademy.com - http://thetattooedchimp.blogspot.co.uk/

  10. #90

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    for example the external pressures argument against free will, by its very definition imply some manner of choice. If advertising/marketing/branding/product placement etc are having an effect, what other than the free will are they having an effect on.
    IMO its to do with the extent to which your future behaviour is shaped by your past actions. All the decision making systems in the body and mind - from the simple to the complex - can only predict the future based on past events. The feedforward systems in the body can only predict consequences based on the past so we are always judging the consequences of future decisons backwards.

    That's what Skinner meant when he tried to argue that human behaviour was shaped by knowledge of punishment and reward and that free will was an illusion. Our actions were conditioned by the past and thoughts, intentions - although given us the impression we are in control - were actually epiphenomena - by products of the past. His view was extreme though.

    I think it hinges crucially on how you interpret your past rather than following a preconcieved notion of it.

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