Thaison i agree, there are gyms of every discipline that put out fighters too early and yes, there is trouble at every type of show occasionally, but going from my own experience, there is a lot more trouble at mma shows, just my opinion but there are nearly always scuffles in the crowd!!!
that is thai, thats how thai is scored.
Originally Posted by maz
if it was as simple as you say people wouldnt say the rules are confusing.
you must be going to some rough shows then hahaha, occasionally there is some trouble but not anymore so than at thai or boxing shows IMO
Originally Posted by maz
of course the rules maybe confusing to someone who doesnt train thai or to the general public, but no more confusing at all, than to someone who doesn't train mma or any sort of wrestling/grappling/bjj (which is the majority of the general public).
when you understand the whole 'having effect' concept then its not so confusing and makes perfect sense...its a fight!
mma will always be more popular than thai though, at least for the forseeable future. a lot of it is down to marketing and promotion, the whole mma scene has way, way more of it than thai and there is also heaps more money in mma, at the top flight anyway.
if thai had the sort of publicity and marketing that mma has then it could change but until that happens it wont, it will always be a niche sport not mainstream, it is still in my opinion though, the most superior stand-up art out there.
james, thats probably true lol.
loads of reasons, from the ram muay before every fight to the irritating music to the one-for-one standing and trading with lots of shots blocked, slow kind of rythm, lack of stoppages, and so on. I used to be MT-mad until I got into K-1 and MMA, they killed MT for me as a spectator sport
its funny, all those reasons are the exact reason i am getting more and more into thai. its totally different to mma so its a nice change. i think k1 is similar to mma in many ways, some of the fighters even cross over and do both and it can get a bit repetitive, i welcome the change
Originally Posted by john joe
reason is we have Boxing and MMA which generally award the 'busier' aggressive fighter - generally
thai doesnt - but isnt hard to score once you clear your head of your 'bias'
boxing has given plenty of strange decisions out too (due to promoters protecting their fighters) so money has an influence here too (as it does with the gamblers in thailand) however the scoring is most definately as Maz has outlined - its just not enough people understand it (for whatever reason) its not hard - just so many trainers who are really kickboxers teaching 'muay thai' still apply kickboxing scoring
things like MSA have trimmed down the ram muays - many shows now just ask to seal the ring (ie all four corners) which speeds things up
thai classes are busier - just from my own experience with plenty of MMA fighters cross training
i dont mind the music - however it should be live - it sounds odd in the uk as they use the same 5 round tape - when the music should reflect the pace of the fight -
also cant recall the last time at a thai show where i heard a crowd boo when they clinch
yet been to plenty of UFC's where the crowd start booing the moment it hits the floor
as to success - very simple
MONEY and MARKETING
which i think MSA and Rumble are addressing
ass for putting fighters out early - happens in all sports and is down to the trainers again - i know for a fact that the gym i use in thailand wouldnt put anyone out unless ready at a major stadium as would reflect badly on them
MT over K1 anyday - like for like - plenty of very very dull k1 shows on where its just punch punch low kick (and repeat for 3 rounds) hardly that exciting -
the GPs etc are fun to watch but then compare that to the Lumpinee vs Raja Champions nights or the other super shows and i know where id rather be
Last edited by Yak; 12-07-2010 at 08:00 AM.
The fully trained art of Muay Thai is beautiful, but A) Thai people are raised on it like we are football and B) Their level of dedication as a whole makes it that more interesting to watch because of it being at the highest level.
MMA still has the whole blood and death thing surrounding it and will appeal to anybody who enjoys violence of any kind, even if the fighters are as gassed as lanced buffalo.
Boxing is very traditional in this country and will always have a huge participation. We also have a huge stock of talented numbers.
Muay Thai is great, but just how many Kru's (teachers) know what they are teaching exactly? We have some very traditionally educated Thai practitioners of a high level and some great fighters, but the numbers are lower - plus the governing body thing for Muay Thai is really only just starting to break through the politics now. So, although we have a few amazing fighters, we have very few.
Don't most people go to watch events regularly because they have favourite fighters?
What incentive is there domestically for a fighter to continue through hard injury for one of the lowest paid professional sports? Most (not all) shows have debuting fighter's and inexperienced fighters which often makes for a slightly less quality performance.
After attending several Thai events - I also realise that it's hard to educate an English crowd after a pint or two, so the Wai Kru Ram Muay put people off, which is a shame.
Last edited by ocuana; 12-07-2010 at 09:43 AM.
"Awww, so you lost darling - but it's the taking part that counts" My Mum... thanks for nothing Mum.
thats why people end up going to K1 or doing the dutch rules circuit
although again we are seeing some tournaments now here and in asia (ie outside of thailand) with some semi decent money albeith still overall poorly paid p4p
but with the tournaments, MSA, the UKMFetc etc all gives MT a good chance of gaining a bit of ground
Last edited by Yak; 12-07-2010 at 10:10 AM.
I think the scoring is one of the major reasons why it will never be mainstream. People are always using the 'it's like a race' analogy and 'it's all based on effect', etc. But your average 'walk in' punter doesn't give a flying fuck about the nuances of MT scoring and how it's done in Thailand, and has no desire to learn or find out; he wants to see a fantastic tear up and if it goes the distance he wants to see the person who won the most rounds as the winner. The fact that the first two rounds are usually not scored (unless there's a knockdown or serious dominance) is also hard for the average punter (without knowledge of MT and the scoring) to comprehend.
IMO the casual fan doesn't have the patience to learn what's required to fully appreciate a MT fight. It's too complicated for them and to be fair would put me off it I hadn't got into MT through training.
I've been into Muay Thai for over 17 years and have brought many non MT people to shows over these years and the scoring always confuses them and frustrates them. The majority rarely go back.
It's the greatest spectator sport in the world for me and beautiful to watch when done well; but I can't see it ever not being a minority interest sport.
MMA on the other hand, despite being more technical than MT, the general public gets (on a base level); whoever wins the most rounds wins; simples!!
Last edited by AndrewC; 14-07-2010 at 02:36 PM.