Takedowns and BJJ.....
Hi all, long time viewer, first time poster.
Just wanted your opinion on the level of takedowns practised within BJJ?
After watching Andre Galvaos performance on Strikeforce Saturday night, it seemed evident he had no answer for the takedown defence of his opponent, his takedowns seemed flimsy to say the least, no setting them up with strikes, slow penetration, etc.
Given that the main prowess of BJJ is the ground game, what are you to do if you are unable to actually turn the fight in to a ground one? Is this evidence that pulling guard or sparring from the knees has become too much of an easy option and training takedowns has become overlooked?
When you look back at the old Rorion/Royce instrcutionals the main strategy of the game was to close the distance, initiate a takedown and place the opponent in to your environment, secure your position and then look for the finish, it just feels that there are more and more instances coming up where you have great wrestlers becoming great strikers being able to keep top class BJJ players on their feet and eventually dominating the fight.
There also appear to be more top level wrestlers becoming proficient in BJJ now too, when you see performances like Andre's you wonder if the same is happening the other way around.
What are you thoughts on this, is "sports" BJJ affecting this? do BJJ players competing in MMA need to re-address their training/tactics?
Genuinely interested in your thoughts on this
Is your question directed at the MMA arena or 'on the street'?
The chances of having a bit of argy-bargey on the street and coming up against a pro wrestler with awesome takedowns is minimal I would say.
If it is the MMA ring, then I guess it is up to the BJJer to train enough stand-up to give themselves the best opportunity within the cage. BJJ alone would no longer suffice.
Galvao usually has pretty decent takedowns, it's just his opponent was a high level wrestler. Yes he needs a lot of work if he wants to become a force in MMA, improving his striking will help him set up a takedown or clinch much easier.
I guess it is possible to meet people on the street that have pretty good base and could potentially defend a takedown if it is performed sloppily? even your local rugby forward can do a good job of defending a sloppy double leg?
In MMA, definiatley as far as i can see it, there is a much higher probability of meeting a good wrestler in MMA competiton than on the "street".
Galvao is a Judo Black belt and has pretty good wrestling / takedowns. The guy he fought was just better and Andre didn't seem to set his takedowns up with good strikes.
Lots of Judo and wrestling plus BJJ available in cardiff mush
Ive been in 6 dojo's (Due to instructors leaving and renaming or myself relocating) and the one thing mostly lacked was take downs.The answer to this I think is that one it takes up more space,two its more injury prone and some bjj guys just dont do take downs well?why who knows.I think its the greatest weakness as a bjj fighter whether it be in the street or in MMA.
Because like you said whats the point in having an amazing ground game if you cant even get the guy there also if your in the street who wants to go to ground,not me.Throwing people in a street fight is very effective as you can choose if you want the guy to land on his shoulder,kidneys or head etc and they will probably be landing on concrete.
If you train take downs just once a week you will improve over time and I mean randori not just drills etc.I also think its wise to have some sort of striking ability at least to avoid getting badly hit(KO' ed) and protect against leg kicks,head kick etc.
But ultimately its each to there own though.Its a sport as long as you enjoy yourself then who cares.
Last edited by SwiftMotion; 12-10-2010 at 10:58 PM.
One of the guys at our gym walked through his category at the recent Dorset and Hants Open.
He double legged most times, then sat on them and finished with a kimura.
He's very good at takedowns.
At the LABS we:
1. Start every Fundamental class with stand up techniques
2. Start many advanced classes with stand up techniques
3. Prioritise standing up and taking top from the open guard as a strategy
4. Do MMA stand up sessions and wall drills
I do agree with Meerkatsu. It's all a game of chances and you simply get good at what you train and what you train for.
The Part Time Grappler - Just Google BJJ / Grappling Tips and you'll find me
train in the day then too with me, Craig, Tom and one or two of the boys. Happy days
Originally Posted by cujo