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Thread: What makes a belt?

  1. #101
    Senior Member Luke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomberh View Post
    Exactly.....On his 90th Birthday should Helio have been demoted to a one stripe white belt?
    That's a bit presumptuous isn't it? I bet even in his old age Helio was still hanging with the black belts.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackmcd View Post
    For the flower sweep video my main criticisms are:

    1) No notice of reaction setup: his opponent is sitting in a neutral position in base. Flower sweeps work when the opponent has their weight on top of you. In order to do that sweep to an opponent with a neutral weight distribution, you have to push with your hips to get them to resist forwards with their weight, when they do so, you can use the momentum to sweep them.

    2) Almost nothing on the trouser grip: try doing a flower sweep without using the trouser grip effectively and you are pretty much begging your opponent to stuff your sweep attempt

    3) Why the hell would you "post up" to armbar? Why not just drop your hips onto his shoulder to pin him to the mat and then tweak the straight arm for the submission? It appears to me to be a quite inefficient use of strength and energy to perform something that can be pretty much accomplished with body weight and positioning.

    4) If the guy rolls out of the armbar, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to try controlling the arm and wrist with two hands to ensure the submission attempt is successful? I grab the trousers to force a roll from that position, but if the guy is doing it himself, why bother?

    5) (second technique) shucking hips doesn't create an armbar out of nothing. I think it's a badly presented example.

    6) (third example) There is nothing taught in this technique about actually keeping the guy's shoulder on the floor. The whole omoplata is done very very fast, with no attention to detail of what is quite a complex move, that differs in execution according to context. This omoplata is so loose that he has to shift his hips from his opponent's waist to his armpit before he can begin locking it down, but that's presented as being normal.

    7) (Probably my main criticism of the video itself) The guy is trying to present three sweep variations and four submissions in a minute and a half. While he does pay attention to first order defences (ie: where the opponent lands from the sweep), he pays little, if any, attention to what the opponent might do after he lands (you know, like take his arm away from that omoplata)

    I can see some probs with the nogi stuff, but I don't do much, so I'll leave it to someone else to criticise.
    With regards your main criticism point 7. I think you are being unfair. This is a youtube video. People can press pause and rewind. It is not a class where an instructor would show just one variation and spend a couple of minutes explaining it.

    On the flower sweep, again to be fair this is a demo of how to sub someone after a failed flower sweep. If RJD used action and reaction to make the sweep work, he couln't teach the actual intended techniques. I imagine this is why uke sat in a strong neutral position.

    Points 2, I note that poor grip is not a deal breaker. The majority of the work is done by the legs and hips. I have fought guys with legs like tree trunks that totally fill their trousers and still been able to execute such techniques.

    Points 3-4 semantics

    Point 6, the omoplata looks a tad loose and the arm needs more bend and more drive down.

    So overall, like I said, there are a few minor bits n pieces. However, trying to completely destroy this guy is really unfair and cyber bullying. There are so many crap demos on the net to pick on. Looking at RJD's they are ok. The no-gi scarf hold to armlock is particularly nice, I've learned that before at Gracie Barra.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngun View Post
    All the demonstritions on the site are for just that talked through demos to show beginners a quick insite of bjj it is not possible to teach a tech in a min or just over anyone can see that.
    If that's true, why is he demonstrating a variation, and an incredibly sloppy flower sweep (which looks like he's actually trying a poor man's pendulum sweep instead)? The whole point of a technique video is that you're meant to do the techniques precisely so that people can follow what you're doing.

    Regarding the second technique, my point was not that it's impossible from there, but it's more complex than just moving your hips.

    And if it is for beginners, it's a bit pointless. It's a bit like trying to teach beginners judo with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWKP5jlItIk

    edit: Bomberh - The point about flower sweeps is that they're easy to stuff by shifting your body weight, you have to do them well in order to get your opponent to commit to putting their hand on the mat, which gives you the options to work off. Either way, this is just my opinion etc etc I'm not claiming to be the omnipotent flower sweep master.
    Last edited by jackmcd; 10-12-2010 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    That's a bit presumptuous isn't it? I bet even in his old age Helio was still hanging with the black belts.
    Not at full resistance. A spazzed out white belt would injure him. As amazing and inspirational as Helio was, I would not expect him to roll with 100% resistance at 90 (or even in his 60 & 70's)

    I have done randori with the legendary Haku Michigami (Judo 9th dan), when he was in his 70's. It was great practise, but could never safely be done under shiai (contest) conditions.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackmcd View Post
    If that's true, why is he demonstrating a variation, and an incredibly sloppy flower sweep (which looks like he's actually trying a poor man's pendulum sweep instead)? The whole point of a technique video is that you're meant to do the techniques precisely so that people can follow what you're doing.

    Regarding the second technique, my point was not that it's impossible from there, but it's more complex than just moving your hips.

    And if it is for beginners, it's a bit pointless. It's a bit like trying to teach beginners judo with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWKP5jlItIk

    edit: Bomberh - The point about flower sweeps is that they're easy to stuff by shifting your body weight, you have to do them well in order to get your opponent to commit to putting their hand on the mat, which gives you the options to work off. Either way, this is just my opinion etc etc I'm not claiming to be the omnipotent flower sweep master.
    I thought you were serious now I can see you are a 3 post white belt troll
    I'ts better to burn out than fade away!

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngun View Post
    I thought you were serious now I can see you are a 3 post white belt troll
    Err, no I'm not. My name's Jack McDonald, I'm a blue belt under Prof Reubens (BTT, Rio De Janeiro, 2008). I compete semi-regularly and I spend more time on the mats than forums, hence the three post count. I use exactly the same username on efn if you'd like to check. The guy asked for opinions and comments and I gave them.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackmcd View Post
    I'm not claiming to be the omnipotent flower sweep master.
    lol
    Being the omnipotent flower sweep master sounds particularly uncool

  8. #108

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    LOL@ a blue belt trying to correct a purple belts technique the way you made out I thought you were a brown or black belt pmsl NEXT...
    I'ts better to burn out than fade away!

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngun View Post
    LOL@ a blue belt trying to correct a purple belts technique the way you made out I thought you were a brown or black belt pmsl NEXT...
    BJJ there are lots of sandbaggers at blue and purple who are much more capable than their belt suggests. Ask RJD

    I don't think it is that outlandish for a lower grade to note weaknesses in a higher grades game. Especially when we are talking blue to purple, where the difference in knowledge might not be that different.

  10. #110

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    Sloppy technique is sloppy technique. As I stated, it's my opinion and I stand by it.

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