Allistair Overeem. How do you guys think he'd do against top Thai Boxers?
Originally Posted by maz
there arent any good thai boxers at super heavy
[QUOTE=Yak;787995]there arent any good thai boxers at super heavy[/QUOasTE]
Just because u prefer watching smaller guys Thai Boxing doesn't mean the likes of Overeem is not a good Thai Boxer. He'll be slower but more powerful than the guys u regard 'good' which everyone should take into account when watching bigger guys compete. Some people dont like watching tiny Thai Boxers tear it up because they think (if there where no weight classes this guy wouldn't last a round with Overeem and the likes)... So can't say I agree with no good thai boxers at superheavyweight... There physical attributes should be noted that they're not going to be as fast etc but can finish with one clean strike.
he isnt saying overeem isnt any good, he's saying that theres no one on the thai circuit at shw thats much of a match for him. they normally fight k-1 style because thats what the dutch favour and the dutch are generally bigger being a western country. thais are too small and dont put out any quality shw's. so overeem or in fact any shw would probably clean up if they found someone to fight them. people like badr hari etc are the best shw thais and they all fight k-1 now
correct...I am saying their is far far less talent in the big boys, and if they were good then they would be doing k1 as that is where the money is.... you have people like Slowinksi in Aus, Knowlsey here in the UK etc but they arent on the same level as overeem, hed kill them. If you are a good superheavyweight and not doing K1 or its showtime (if you were doing MMA of course) etc etc then you would be being managed pretty badly in my opinion...
if you disagree name me 5 super heavys.... who are comparable to any of the top 10 at any of the stadiums ..... youll get the odd one or two - but seriously if you wanted to be a 'world champion' you would find it easier at cruiser weight up ..... in the UK for example there are only a handful at these weights.... who are a good level....
By naming top 5 superheavyweight, is that me comparing to guys in p4p rankings or what? hard to compare weight classes in a pound 4 pound scenario as big guys like Overeem, Bojanski and Le Banner would knock all the little guys out anyways but you then have to imagine them smaller with limited knock out power which is what alot of them base a skillset round... Being rangy or having KO power.
Originally Posted by Yak
Technique wise I agree smaller guys in alot of cases have a bit more technique because most don't feel the need to adapt to there big weapon (KO right hand for example) or needing to work that extra foot distance to get there next step....
Only point I was making is MMA have strikers who could compete in Thai boxing... The better ones like Jose Aldo, Anderson Silva, Vitor Belfort and Junior Dos Santos could excell in individual sports if they chose to and even the guys from Thailand could suffer a KO from some of MMA's finest strikers.
i think you have gone off on a tangent
Le Banner was never a great knockout artist himself....he has been beaten by small heavies
top 5 superheavy weights means who of the current crop of SuperHeavy thaiboxers ie not guys who do Joe Rogan 'muay thai' but guys who fight under muay thai scoring criteria do you think are really good.
ie people like Alain Nglaini (who is in HK and a 'world champ')
as for small guys not having to worry about hard punchers thats nonsense.... People like Anuwat Kaewsamrit, Liam Harrison etc can put your lights out and are in the 60kg area. No one has said Thais are invincible but seriously at sub 70kg there are more great fighters from thailand than any other nation (as one would expect) you get tall and rangey fighters at lower weights or guys who are huge for a weight...there are guys who can give weight away (like Sudaksorn) or Saencahi and still win....percetnage wise at 60 ish kilo - handing away 5kgs is massive!
Anyone can win by a big right hand but thats no different to any other sport...hell in MMA there are plenty of guys who are lacking in skill in the UK HW scene (MMA) who are more than capable of KO'ing someone.....doesnt make than 'good'
clearly you like the HW arena which is cool - horses for courses, but its a small division outside of K1 rules and thats where the best 'standup' guys are in the 85kg + brackets.... outside of the hail mary punch most MMA guys would need to spend a lot of time adapting to win as its a different scoring criteria in Muay Thai which favours effective techniques ie bodykicks and knees over punching (unless you are KO;ing your opponent) and that takes training ......
Yeah I get what you're saying that there is people with KO power you wouldn't regard good but I was going more on the direction of the MMA fighters that ARE ggod strikers. Boxing you have Junior Dos Santos, Vitor Belfort, Rampage Jackson and Frankie Edgar... Thai Boxing you have Allistair Overeem, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, Anthony Pettis, Jon Jones, Thiago Alves, Paul Daley, Melvin Manheof and I could go on.... All have crazy good technique and can knock you out... Don't think these guys with such high standard striking need to pray for there hail mary to land.... They'll do fine setting them up themselves with combos.
Originally Posted by Yak
Reason i'm saying is I know guys who hold British titles in Mauy Thai and I don't think they'd match up well against the list of guys I mentioned. I think MMA has a better standard in striking than is given credit for in the Muay Thai circuit.
Last edited by OverhandRighT; 01-09-2011 at 01:14 PM.
british titles arnt worth a great deal, area titles are worth even less. someone with a british title isnt exactly an elite striker
i would hope so too...the guys above are elite MMA pro fighters... british level muay thai guys are part time hobbiest's for the most...bar a few....
bit like saying an elite level thai boxer would duff up most british MMA champs...you'd hope so too as the class level should be pretty big...
Still Overeem is huge but to me he isnt what i would call an amazing thai boxer ie... thai boxing as a sport is not the same as thai style strikes used for MMA....
i maybe a nostalgic so and so but K1 of a few years back when overeem hadnt been 'on the horsemeat' was very very good...and he definately wasnt elite level then.... people like Aerts, Bonjasky, Hoost, that was class to watch... but even then - a lot of these guys who did k1 never did real muay thai - they won adapted titles in holland without elbows...stgill great to watch and skilled but a different sport once again....
I dont think MMA stiking is underestimated at all... i think actually what most dont recognise is the difference between scoring and how a thai and mma fight differ....