Tom Holland vs Kenny Kennard at Shock n Awe dispute

[James Whiston]

I was at the Shock n Awe show on Saturday, it's a well run show. I question the ending to Tom Hollands match with Kenny Kennard, the fight started with Kenny taking Tom down and started grounding and pounding him. Tom upkicked Kenny 4-5 times then Kenny went for A toe hold on Tom. Kenny heard some cracking noises and let go of the toe hold. The ref (David Swan) and doctor moved in to see what happening, Tom and everyone was confused as there was no tap or verbal submission from Tom. He said he didn't feel any pain in his ankle and was fine to continue, both corners and doctor was happy for the fight to continue but the ref said the fight was over and would not restart the bout.

The fight was called a win to Kenny via achilles lock.

[Big Bri]

And your point is what exactly?
Kenny took Tom down, battered him, then caught him in a nasty sub and thought he`d broken Tom`s foot. He let`s go and the ref stops the fight.
Yes he should of waited for it to really snap but being a nice guy and presuming he`d seriously damaged his opponent he let go.
Kenny was in no trouble at any point, clearly had controlled the fight so your up kicks are irrelevant.
I told both Chris and Mick that I will view the footage and if Tom was defending the sub attempt I would make it a no contest.
If he wasn`t defending it though then I see no reason to overturn the ref`s decision. Even offering to look at it in this scenario is more than I have to do.
The ref`s are there to save the amateur and semi pro fighters when they feel they are in serious danger. Would you rather his leg had snapped so you could come on here and tell everyone that the ref should of stopped the fight earlier.
I`ll post the footage of the fight up when it`s here, let`s hope your recollection of events is as good as you have said.
My recollection is of Kenny stepping up on 4 weeks notice and soundly beating Tom and then concerned for his welfare letting go of what he thought was a seriously injured opponent.

[pete]

I was at the show and saw the fight, I have no involvement with either gym or fighter.

Kenny controlled the fight until the end when he applied the ankle lock, I saw him applying it them all of a sudden he let go and put his hands up as if to say stop. The ref didn't stop it nor did Tom seem hurt so I thought the decision was going to be Tom wins by the most gentleman like verbal submission in history and in my opinion from what I understand of the unified MMA rules that would have been the correct decision.

However, as the fight was just an amateur fight I would never have liked to have seen that decision as Kenny was just stopping because he believed he had damaged Tom. I would have liked to have seen the fight re-started from the same position. I don't agree with the result as even though Tom was being dominated he was never finished or submitted so in my opinion even he shouldn't be declared the loser, I believe the result should be over-turned to a no contest, however Bri has more MMA experience then myself and his opinion is more valid then mine.

[Big Bri]

I'm not commenting regards the fight anymore.
What I will say is if a promotion starts changing referees decisions EVERYTIME a gym is unhappy then it's going to be a fucking nightmare from start to finish.
We will look at it BUT if there are no rules broken and no clear reason to change the result then I won't be.
Also if a ref believes a fighter is injured it's their decision to stop the fight, I'd prefer a fighter uninjured and complaining of this scenario over a seriously injured one any day.

[danhardy84]

If there was no tap or verbal submission and it was not the referee jumping into stop then it should unfortunately be declared a n/c . If a fighter let go and looks up to the referee then that is more of the fighters actions than the referees judgement , i'd assume the referee called the fight under assuming there was a tap or verbal he did not witness . Error of fighter for letting go, Error of referee for ruling ?? Yes i agree semi pro no one wants an injury... but if it was not the referee who jumped in to stop the action then the referee did not make a decision to stop the fight, the fighter did....i think we all know the rules on fighting are defend yourself at all time, do not stop unless the referee tells you etc .... it may be unfair for the 1 lad to not have a W for a fight he was owning but on the other hand it may not be fair for one to have a L because of misjudgement.

If there was no injury, there was no tap, it is not right to rule one a loser from a fighters decision he is not the referee and i understand he may of released out of kindness or felt something was seriously wrong but toe holds are nasty you should be able to see from a clear video the look on toms face or if there was any sign of shouting or grimmacing.

[Grizzly.]

What's done is done.

[James Whiston]

If there was no tap or verbal submission and it was not the referee jumping into stop then it should unfortunately be declared a n/c . If a fighter let go and looks up to the referee then that is more of the fighters actions than the referees judgement , i'd assume the referee called the fight under assuming there was a tap or verbal he did not witness . Error of fighter for letting go, Error of referee for ruling ?? Yes i agree semi pro no one wants an injury... but if it was not the referee who jumped in to stop the action then the referee did not make a decision to stop the fight, the fighter did....i think we all know the rules on fighting are defend yourself at all time, do not stop unless the referee tells you etc .... it may be unfair for the 1 lad to not have a W for a fight he was owning but on the other hand it may not be fair for one to have a L because of misjudgement.

If there was no injury, there was no tap, it is not right to rule one a loser from a fighters decision he is not the referee and i understand he may of released out of kindness or felt something was seriously wrong but toe holds are nasty you should be able to see from a clear video the look on toms face or if there was any sign of shouting or grimmacing.

Thanks for your input, thats how I feel. I don't want to drag this out or turn it into a slanging match. I just stated facts, I would like to see a video reply. I'd like to see a re match more, not my place to make or ask for matches tho.

[Big Bri]

They aren't facts though, it's your view and the view of your friends.
I was 10ft away and I didn't see exactly what happened, it happened very quickly.
Although this seems to be some sort of "World Cup final" event for you, for me it was simply a semi pro fight.
You win and lose them in prep for turning pro.
I've not spoken to the ref about this since it happened and until I see it again I won't be calling him.
How about instead of moaning before the video is posted up you go and help Tom figure out how not to get taken down, gnp'd and drill leg lock escapes.
This would all be much more positive for everyone involved.

[Grizzly.]

It was an amateur fight, it doesn't mean anything when you turn pro. It'll be all right, stick them in there again.

[FELLA]

They aren't facts though, it's your view and the view of your friends.
I was 10ft away and I didn't see exactly what happened, it happened very quickly.
Although this seems to be some sort of "World Cup final" event for you, for me it was simply a semi pro fight.
You win and lose them in prep for turning pro.
I've not spoken to the ref about this since it happened and until I see it again I won't be calling him.
How about instead of moaning before the video is posted up you go and help Tom figure out how not to get taken down, gnp'd and drill leg lock escapes.
This would all be much more positive for everyone involved.

That's a pretty bad call from you and getting a bit petty. Whether it is amateur, semi-pro or pro doesn't really matter about the rule set the key thing is that the rules are followed correctly.

In my understanding the ref CAN stop the fight but what was his reason?

What was the decision or announcement? "Winner by ......"?

It's not like Sakuraba vs. Gracie where the ref actually intervenes and calls a stop to the fight.
The fighter let go without any verbal or visible submission.