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Thread: Safe Mma??? Or not?

  1. #41

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    Loads of guys taking peds. Some I know of. They are cheaper than u think. But safe mma can obviously adv suspensions but nobody to enforce it. It's all good for guys who are fighting on promotions which seem to be enforcing it ie cage warriors and bamma but that's a small percentage of UK fighters so unless u are signed to them, guys are gonna fight on smaller shows which don't use safe mma, so for example I have fought on cw previously if I had signed up to safe mma then it would be a waste as money as fighters on the smaller shows ain't with safe mma and don't need to give bloods etc. If I get my bloods done and I'm good to go and my opponent does the same regardless where it's done ain't it just as safe.? Plus very small percentage of guys train full time in the UK as the pay isn't great. We fight because we love it. We already pay alot in fight camps/sups/training gear / transport/food etc. So asking to pay more is a lot for some guys who get very little as it is, especially if it isn't compulsory to do so. I also have a problem with for example I'm the only pro fighter in my gym so if I wanna fight safe mma sanctioned I'm better doing it as a independent fighter so my club don't need to pay for me to fight? I find that a bit strange.
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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim2007 View Post
    I can see a little of both argument but am more on the side of Safe MMA and there are a few key things to take into consideration. If you fight an opponent that had a blood borne desease i.e HIV or Hepatitis would you want to know about it before possibly being infected? that alone to me is a good reason to join up. The additional benefit like the Pre/Post fight Medicals and suspension recommendations helps keep things in check for you and can pick up on something sooner rather than later.

    PED use will be about but to be fair how many MMA fighters can afford to use PED's? I'm no expert but unless fighters were really well paid i.e at the top of the food chain in the UFC then where will they be finding this money to pay for them. Not sure exactly how much they cost but a standard/decent domestic level fighter may earn between £400 and £1000 up to 4 times a year. So based on that £4000 for the absolute smallest %age of fighters who get top wage and manage to fight 4 times a year. Take off if the fighter doesnt work full time then there would be no money left or if the fighter worked full time then I guess there is a small chance that some of that money could be used to go towards PED's but dont forget that fighters often have higher outgoing as they eat well and alot, they use regular protein or supplements, pay for gym training, pay for equipment and training apparel.

    I could go on and on......

    Which "type" of fighters are you suspecting of taking PED's?
    Dude are you been fucking serious? Not posting a list but if you cant think of at least 10 then your blind. Plus a lot have jobs so your point is void. Really didnt wanna come at you like this as you seem a cracking guy but comon man you only need to look at some. Im no expert but I know this much Peds are rife in uk mma and anyone who tries to deny that needs to wake up.


    And this is aimed at everyone so long as you pussy foot around PEDS whether its because your mates take them you take them or your training partner takes them your not doing the sport any favours either get tough on it or stay where you are in terms mainstream popularity.
    Last edited by Babycakes; 09-08-2013 at 05:28 AM.
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim2007 View Post
    Take off if the fighter doesnt work full time then there would be no money left or if the fighter worked full time then I guess there is a small chance that some of that money could be used to go towards PED's but dont forget that fighters often have higher outgoing as they eat well and alot, they use regular protein or supplements, pay for gym training, pay for equipment and training apparel.

    I could go on and on......

    Which "type" of fighters are you suspecting of taking PED's?
    In terms of cost its far cheaper to do a cycle of roids then Months of hard work with a good diet and protein.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by HANDSOFSTONE View Post
    In terms of cost its far cheaper to do a cycle of roids then Months of hard work with a good diet and protein.
    Iv never done them but at one time considered it and they are cheaper weekly then doing 1 gram of coke at a weekend. Dont do coke either just trying to give a example. Not everyone on gear does the high quality stuff the markets huge and so many options. What pisses me off though is when you see big promotion champion and you know for a fact they are on it.
    Last edited by Babycakes; 09-08-2013 at 05:58 AM.
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  5. #45

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    nothing will ever change until a governing body comes into place, and that can't happen until the government get involved. all sorts have tried to set up governing bodies but the same as safe mma, they have no legal power to enforce anything and it boils down to whether shows and orgs want to tow the line or not.
    it is about time something happens from sport england, with mma being rapidly growing the need for enforced minimal safety procedures, guidelines etc becomes even more important. we need an organisation backed by the government who can have legislation put in whereby all shows/orgs must legally adhere to the policies/safety guidelines set by this authority.
    Until the government get involved its anything like this will struggle to succeed and we'll continue having debates like this.
    "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war"
    GFT

  6. #46

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    I've fought guys I'm almost certain are on PEDs (from the signs), and beaten them. I think the effect is overblown - they don't automatically make you a ruthless smashing machine. It's cheating and I'm against it, but if anything it's a lot of insecurity and looking for a short cut, of which there isn't one.

    Safety against blood diseases, proper medical care at events, proper pre and post fight medicals are more pressing concerns in my opinion as a fighter.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by HANDSOFSTONE View Post
    Minimum safety standards as in not fighting juiced up opposition who has an unfair advantage and can actually permenantly injure you.

    I think that is more important then someone being suspended after a contest when MMa fighters rarely fight for the paycheque and are not very active.
    Sir, we have a very different opinion on many of these subjects and its not just you so please don't take what I am about to write personally. A lot of people that voice their opinion on this subject have not read or educated themselves about all the available information.
    PEds
    On your opinions regarding PEDs, please listen to Rosi Sextons experience during her proposed fight with Shiela Gaff (https://soundcloud.com/johngooden-1/cageside-podcast-special-rosi). Rosi did everything by the book and lost a lot of money...we are talking multiple thousands of pounds. Sport is a massive entity and in some sports the stakes are so very high that people are always looking to get the edge. The cheating chemists are often ahead of the drug police, so continutal R&D is required to keep across this. The costs associated with this are huge. Cheating fighters can short cut to the newest PEDs by following cheaters from other big sports, but our doesnt have the funds to control it properly. This is a problem at the very top, let alone the bottom. Yes its frustrating for all, but promotions that have a profit line of a couple of thousand pounds would be spending in excessive of £10k to randomly test under VADA conditions just a few fighters. That is not feasible for any of the UK/ European promotions. There are cheaper ways, but then cheaters can easily get around them.

    Minimum standards
    we have to learn to run before we can walk. You have no idea how difficult it is to get some professional fighters who are in fight camp to make 1 or 2 visits to a doctor to get tested for SAFE MMA. To add in drug testing is right now, is totally out of the stratosphere. One of the roles of SAFE MMA is to collect data so that as a sport we can identify what issues are common e.g. Hepatitis, lacerations, limb breakages etc etc. After a couple of years we might discover there was an epidemic of hep b in the north east and guys fighting more than 4 times a year suffered detached retinas. We have absolutely no evidence of this in the past or right now. there may in fact be zero cases of hep b and detached retinas. oh and that will consequently allow insurance underwriters to undertake a risk assessment of a competitive fighter and provide accurate terms of insurance. we dont have that right now. When this happens bigger sponsorship will be more encouraged to become involved as they will have data to see that the injuries in the sport are not all that bad. All of this whilst the BMA are trying to ban MMA activities.

    Suspensions
    To even suggest that the possibility of someone using PEDs (with no evidence of their effects etc) is more important that suspending a fighter that has suffered concussion is so worryingly off the mark I nearly fell off my chair. Repetitive concussion causes brain damage and possibly fatality. These suspensions are protecting the fighters from causing themselves more harm and harming others (if he/she carried an infectious blood disease). This consequently goes some way to safe guarding the sport as the cards would come tumbling if we witnessed a fatality as a result of this.

    Hopefully, you can see that this is so much bigger than a blood test. we are trying to build an infrastructure into a sport that is largely fragmented and less than 100% professional (ie professional fighters are not always in fact full time pro athletes). we need the support, not negative attention that gives fighters the impression that it is not valuable. we need promoters to demonstrate they care for fighters, but listening to what the experts at SAFE MMA have set out and realise that for now this is the only available option in going forward and legitimising the sport and providing a minimum level of safety to our fighters
    Commentator: CWFC, Kayo MMA, Shock n Awe. SAFE MMA. johngooden.co.uk @johngoodenuk

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods of War View Post
    I had to pay through my GP to have my bloods done for Shock N Awe. Of course Iíd rather my expenses are all covered by the promotion but realistically at this point I can see why that doesnít happen yet but I have the peace of mind for myself and my family Iím protecting myself. Iím grateful to work with a show that takes fighter safety seriously and not just the door fees. Iíve not been matched for a fight on a SAFE MMA event as yet but Iíd be willing to cover the costs.

    The choice seems clear to me that if we want the sport to progress we are all responsible for investing into it. I find frustrating this continual illusion of entitlement to a professional sport without being willing to do anything to bring about the change or shooting down anyone who tries.
    "the angels doth sing into my SAFE MMA ears. i thank you"
    Commentator: CWFC, Kayo MMA, Shock n Awe. SAFE MMA. johngooden.co.uk @johngoodenuk

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    I've fought guys I'm almost certain are on PEDs (from the signs), and beaten them. I think the effect is overblown - they don't automatically make you a ruthless smashing machine. It's cheating and I'm against it, but if anything it's a lot of insecurity and looking for a short cut, of which there isn't one.

    Safety against blood diseases, proper medical care at events, proper pre and post fight medicals are more pressing concerns in my opinion as a fighter.
    Absolutely spot on, Jay. PEDs doesnt automatically equal success. And those fighters using can in fact do more damage to themselves in the long term.

    Of course blood diseases, medical probs (staph, mechanical injuries, retina) and concussion are a far more real, measurable and imminent issue.
    Commentator: CWFC, Kayo MMA, Shock n Awe. SAFE MMA. johngooden.co.uk @johngoodenuk

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonpride View Post
    nothing will ever change until a governing body comes into place, and that can't happen until the government get involved. all sorts have tried to set up governing bodies but the same as safe mma, they have no legal power to enforce anything and it boils down to whether shows and orgs want to tow the line or not.
    it is about time something happens from sport england, with mma being rapidly growing the need for enforced minimal safety procedures, guidelines etc becomes even more important. we need an organisation backed by the government who can have legislation put in whereby all shows/orgs must legally adhere to the policies/safety guidelines set by this authority.
    Until the government get involved its anything like this will struggle to succeed and we'll continue having debates like this.
    An authority like Sport England will be far more encouraged to enter into outr sport when they see that we have good housekeeping. SAFE MMA is the ideal opportunity for fighters, coaches, promoters and other stakeholders to demonstrate their professionalism, ambition and support for mixed martial arts in the UK.

    If you were a venture capitalist, would you buy a prefer to invest in company a- with a disenfranchised work force who all worked on their own terms and turned over £1million/ year. Or would you prefer the company b that turned over £1million pa , maybe even £750k, but they had a united workforce who had demonstrated their voluntary commitment. I'd sign the cheque for company b
    Commentator: CWFC, Kayo MMA, Shock n Awe. SAFE MMA. johngooden.co.uk @johngoodenuk

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